3D-Pangel

Well.....the next release is expected in the summer...according to their web-site. Now the summer technically extends until September 22....more than enough time for them to still be beta testing a GPU version. Now, GPU acceleration will be at the core of their code base and therefore all new features will be built off of that -- so if it is to be part of this release then it is probably already well down the beta test path. But don't expect to see it announced just yet. Insydium tends to orchestrate how they release their sneak peeks so that they build to create excitement. Each new peek tends to eclipsing the one before it in terms of "wow" impact. Pretty confident that this is both marketing and that the more complex (and thereby the more impressive new features) take more time to beta test to a point where they feel comfortable enough to announce it -- so their announcements naturally come at the end. Either way, GPU acceleration would be huge! An absolute game changer that would really get their competitors (like EmberGen) to stand up and take notice. As such, if it is to happen, don't expect to see it announced until right before it is released as it will be the climatic conclusion to their sneak peek release videos. Dave

To get this back on topic, I just finished watching "Nezha Reborn." I thought Nezha's CG was just gorgeous. ACES rendered? Most likely as the dynamic range of each frame was amazing. I also enjoyed the story and characters. Now the plot does move quickly and you really need to give it two viewings to pick up everything. Originally, I thought the editing was too jumpy but on the second viewing you realize that each one makes sense as now you know where the scene is going --- it happens that fast. Also, you also need to see another Netflix movie before you watch "Nezha Reborn" which is simply called "Nezha" as that provide some of the background mythology of the character which is referenced in "Nezha Reborn". When "Nezha Reborn" goes into the back story, it is with assumption that you already know about that legend so they really don't spend much time on it. I was a little confused watching those scenes in "Neha Reborn" until they showed "Nezha" as a child and from their I made connection to the other Netflix movie. I think Igor said he watched it with sub-titles. It is now on Netflix and with English dubbing. Sorry, but it is very hard to read sub-titles while watching amazing eye-candy. You almost have to make a choice: enjoy the visuals or enjoy the plot. I really wish Monster Run on Netlix had an English dub version. Catch these movies when the come out as Netflix does not keep them up forever. I wanted to go back and watch "Harlock: Space Pirate" again as that CG was also very good, but it is no longer streaming. Drat. In fact, they no longer carry the DVD to rent at Netflix. But you can stream it on Amazon Prime. Dave

What you are both saying is at the core of my original point - that being when does the depiction of violence in entertainment become gratuitous. I think you would both agree that there is a point when it goes from being necessary to being gratuitous. Is that a fine line? Not sure, but I would imagine that line is different for everyone. I will leave it there as I have a world of respect for you both as artists and more importantly as people. I think we agree in some respect and I understand your point about how art should and does cast a wide net over all aspects of society. But, and this is the most important point after all, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. We just have different eyes and therefore see things in different ways. That is perfectly fine with me and I hope it is perfectly fine with you as well. Dave

Wow...very glad to see that people do object to the violence. The first episode in Season 1 was like the gut check for the casual viewer as I found the violence extremely gory and over the top. If you can make it through that episode, then you can probably handle the rest. Though I must admit it took me two attempts to get through it. Had it been live action, I would have turned it off for good but because it was CG I had to give it a second attempt because it was that good. Now, I subscribe to the rule that just because you can do it in CG does NOT mean that you should. Crushing a women's head to pulp and then probing the crushed flesh with a cane really did nothing to further the story in that first episode. But some artists feel that they need to show over-the-top violence in order to be "edgy" or "relevant" and forget that everything needs to add to the story if you really want to be taken seriously. They don't seem to hold themselves back and ask a simple question like: Can we get the story points we need without being visually unpleasant or upsetting to watch? This is "entertainment" after all! Sometimes the violence is absolutely necessary (Saving Private Ryan, Hacksaw Ridge, We Were Soldiers) so I am not against the depiction of violence, just the depiction of gratuitous violence. Mature artists and film makers know the difference. Unfortunately, I am afraid that there is a lack of maturity out there with many rationalizing that because video game violence sells, then it really is entertainment after all. I mean the first episode was created by Blur Studios after all (and their work was stunning) who does make video games. So guess what people: We really haven't changed much since the days when gladiators fought to the death in the Roman Colosseum. But with all that said, LD&R really had some fun and funny episodes as well - and I will be looking forward to watching the next anthology in May and even the third anthology in 2022. Dave

For me, it is more important to discuss perpetual pricing than a cheaper form of subscription pricing (which is in effect indie pricing). Here's why. There is an assumption we are all making with subscription pricing and that is Maxon will continue to improve the software with new features each year to warrant that subscription price. Right now, we are seeing that so all looks good. But at some point in the future (and hopefully the far future) there will come a time when C4D goes the way of Adobe products and that is long standing bugs do not get fixed or missing features we have requested for a long time do not get implemented. In that scenario, we are paying a subscription price each year to get essentially the same program with nothing new being added that is relevant to the user. If you don't believe that will happen, just listen to the complaints about Adobe Premiere or 3D Studio Max subscription programs. For those long term users that got into C4D by buying the full program, that is a worst case scenario. So a few years of just paying to use the program with no added benefits will start to erode the implicit trust we have in Maxon to make the subscription model worthwhile to us each year. If history is any teacher, this will happen. History is also showing that is a not a good long term strategy either as people are leaving Adobe and Autodesk products (why else would they try and get people back with an "indie" license). So I want Maxon to be better than that. We all "think" that Maxon is different than those behemoth cash grab companies like Adobe and Autodesk. This is our hope based on their current reputation. But there really is nothing that they have done since subscriptions were announced to support that view. In fact, quite the opposite is true with Maxon making Cineversity as subscription only benefit, not updating AR since they bought Redshift, and recent comments made on this forum about subscriptions updates being the best path to get bugs fixed, etc. Indie licenses is not the solution as that will just be another subscription program but at a lower price. But, to be fair to Maxon, we also need to understand that Maxon wants recurring revenue that subscriptions provide as that helps them maintain current operations and hopefully continues to support development in the future the way we have seen it in the past. It is a business after all and we can never forget that. So we need a model where everyone wins but at the same time protects the user by holding Maxon accountable to continually address user needs with each subscription release (eg. not fall into the Adobe/Autodesk mode). As I think about this (and I do think about it a lot), the answer was surprisingly simple. Allow all SUBSCRIPTION users the option to either pay $720 a year to renew their subscription or pay the extra amount for a perpetual upgrade license to the next version (I have no idea what the price is as it varies and unfixed). You can then go back and forth between subscription and perpetual for the same fixed costs for both regardless of what version you are on. But the only path to that fixed perpetual upgrade license cost is by first having a subscription license. While this may sound like the current situation, it really is not so let me explain with an example. Let's assume the 1 version perpetual upgrade license cost is $900 in this example. You are are subscription license holder at S24. You have decided to step out of the subscription program for a bit but you want to keep using C4D so you decide to purchase the perpetual upgrade license with the next release for $900. You then continue to use that perpetual license until R29 is released 5 years later. At that time, when R29 is announced, it has features that you want so you decide you want that latest version. To do that you must first sign up with a subscription license for one (or X) years. As you are now back into the subscription program, you can stay with that program as long as you want until you decide to step out of it again by purchasing the perpetual upgrade license for $900 again at that point in the future. Remember, you can't get the upgrade perpetual license cost until you have purchased subscription plan for a set period of time. You can repeat that cycle as many times as you want. So why is this better? Because it gives the user choice while still giving Maxon the recurring revenue that subscriptions provide. It also holds Maxon accountable to meet the user needs over the long term via meaningful updates and bug fixes if they want the subscription program to keep working for everyone. If they fail to keep their end of that implicit bargain, people exit with the perpetual license. Once they start to deliver again, people jump back in but they have to do that with the subscription model...and when they jump back in, it is at some minimum number of years before they can jump out again (ideally as minimum of a 1 year subscription would be great but Maxon could decide that 1 year of subscription is too short and could make this commitment longer before they offer this option --- but that is still a win over the current model). So there is some commitment from the user as well as to Maxon to this program. So win-win. Also, If Maxon continues to keep up their end of that bargain, people stay in the subscription program as that is the cheapest option. My biggest fear with the current subscription program is that it removes choice and holds me hostage to renewing. This plan removes that fear. Now, this proposal would ONLY be rejected if Maxon never had any intention of EVER giving the user that much choice and freedom or honoring the implicit bargain between Maxon and the user to continually upgrade the software to meet the user needs (in general). I challenge Maxon to be better than the industry and to be concerned that having users feel they are held hostage is really not a long term winning strategy. Dave

One thing to watch out for is what Autodesk did with the initial release of Maya Indie. Originally, only the first year was at the $250/year indie subscription price and that was then set to renew automatically at the full $1620/year subscription price for the second year. Now, Autodesk changed that on August 7th, 2020 so that the renewal price is now at the $265/year level but current users are a still suspicious as they say that the terms of the indie subscription do change often and therefore strongly recommend that everyone shut off the auto-renew option. Plus, the ability to get the indie subscription is a well kept secret at the Autodesk site and you are more than likely to be directed to Maya Light which is NOT the indie subscription. Here is the link So once again, we see that nothing is clean and clear when it comes "to good to be true" licensing. Honestly, this is where modo beats everyone and that may be one of the main reasons why their users are so passionate about the software as they have a very simple and fair model: upgrade from any past version for the same price under their maintenance plan of $440. Honestly, if MAXON allowed perpetual license holders to upgrade to any future perpetual license version for the same price, I would not need an indie version. That would be ideal. Dave

Is it just me or does it seem like MAXON really puts their foot in their mouth when discussing/defending the features of each new release? Invariably, the arguments they make don't wash with everyone and after much discussion in the forums we get the expected "Goodbye MAXON...it has been a great X years but I am out of here". The gaffe this time around didn't even have anything to do with S24 but a discussion on why R23 bugs may not be fixed. I mean, that really is a little irritating to your perpetual license customers and essentially says "Hi. We at MAXON only stand behind our current products! Customer Care to us means if you want it fixed, you need to buy it again!" Really? Imagine if the automobile industry worked that way. "Brakes don't work on the 2020 car you just purchased? Well, just lease the 2021 model." I mean, that is essentially what was said in a previous post over the advantages of subscriptions over perpetual licenses. Seriously, that is a ridiculous argument. Personally, I don't buy the whole code base argument because I can't imagine that it is impossible to modify the S24 code base such that new features introduced between R23 and S24 get turned off. You then release this as an R23 patch. That would be the smart thing to do because you then only have ONE code base across you entire user base to worry about rather than separate codes bases for each release...with the additional benefits of happy customers of previous releases getting their bugs fixed. Even if you can't do that for certain tools in R23 because that tool was completely re-written from scratch in S24, then just disable as much of the new features as you safely can. So what if a new feature creeps into the R23 patch -- it is a win-win situation for everyone. You have only one code base to worry about and users of previous revisions get more stable software with a few additional features. So using bug fixes as a motivation for going with subscriptions was an ill conceived statement where perpetual license owners are concerned. No one who is dead set against subscriptions will be pushed into subscriptions...they will just be pushed into Blender. I think MAXON needs to seriously wake up to that fact. If you want to keep the perpetual license user you need to think differently. We are a lost cause as far as subscriptions are concerned because Adobe has taught us that at some point in the future, the new features will not justify the cost of the annual subscription and eventually you will feel like you are paying each year just to use the same old software...bugs and all. Honestly, MAXON should just hire Chris Schmidt to talk about the features of a new release and stay quiet. You are not helping yourself. Dave

People really need to watch Chris Schmidt's EXCELLENT overview of S24 at RocketLasso before they pass any sort of judgement. He takes almost 90 minutes to explain everything and is very thorough. From the standpoint that this is a 0.5 release (IMHO as it was only six months since the last release), I find it a very respectable set of features. Look....everything in this release is focused on USER EFFICIENCY which is never a bad thing and something which you will only appreciate after you used it for a bit and then try to go back to the old way of doing things. I can see that happening with the Asset browser, place tools and the tween tools where you say "how did I live without this for so long?". The tween tool alone should make life easier for animators everywhere. True - nothing big - nothing flashy - nothing to make the competition stand up and take notice.....but all very useful nonetheless. Dave

Well...prior to the subscription roll out you were able to show that perpetual upgrade information for multiple versions of C4D (Prime, Broadcast, Studio, etc). So why is it now so difficult? You did mention an impact if people own multiple MAXON products. Does that imply, as a Redshift owner, that my upgrade pricing for C4D and Redshift will be a bundled price that is lower than if I upgraded each separately? Just looking for clarity as what was once readily available information is now hidden (from a user perspective) and such invites suspicion. Dave

Perpetual upgrade pricing is still hidden and requires a call to the sales office. The only reason that I can think of this continual omission on their sales page and why it does not have an automatic "Buy Now" option is because perpetual upgrades are not part of MAXON's long term strategy....or that they have yet to decide if it should be a permanent part of their sales strategy. The deciding factor being the rate of annual perpetual upgrades --- if that option creates on-going revenue then it stays. If not, it goes (one less license type to manage). Only time will tell. I would love to get a solid reason from ANYONE on this as I think the answer would tell us a great deal about MAXON's view on perpetual upgrades. Dave

Sorry....but at a $69 Million dollar price tag, content is now more relevant than effort. Prior to his NFT windfall, his effort and discipline deserved praise and I too marveled at the effort without ever really seeing what he produced because that was not the point at the time. But that changed. What he created now needs to be evaluated given how much money was paid. Honestly, the guy has issues and it shows in his work....but is it art or is it a cathartic release on the part of the artist? Not sure I would pay $69M to see someone work out their problems.

Good point. We all get focused on something new while missing the most common. Anybody know how much power a data center pumps out? Huge. And they are everywhere. Want to lower carbon emissions? Log off of Twitter and Facebook. Also shut your cell phone off because those things are constantly talking to the network and all that conversation takes power. True...not as much as a render farm pumping out digital art but there are millions of cell phones out there so it adds up. I would love to see those voices most concerned about carbon emissions turn their attention to the impact cell phones and the data centers behind social media platforms have on the environment. That puts their cause squarely in their back yard to control and the sacrifice required to personally do something about even closer.

Okay..based on that link, I am not a fan as I had no prior knowledge of Beeple's work. I know that art is in the eye of the beholder so I will only speak for myself when I say that I found the subject matter rather disturbing, racist, misogynistically vulgar and overly violent. The quotes, written by Beeple himself under each individual work only support that conclusion. Was his art meant to be to be intentionally "edgy" as a means to deliver an "important" message? Not sure. Honestly, they read to me more like vulgar graffiti written on the side of a public bathroom stall than real art. But again, I speak only for myself. But whatever the intended outcome, he made a ton of money with it....which in itself is an interesting comment. I guess you need to be shocking more than good to be relevant in the art world. If I was MAXON, I would not be so eager to align myself with this work. Pretty sure that there are other artists out there who are forging their path in the NFT world that are far more deserving of MAXON's attention. Just look at the artists profiled at Kitbash3D or in our own Gallery at The Cafe! -- now that is art.

Well....as MAXON is now a parent company to Redshift, Red Giant and C4D, I can see the need for a separate logo....which implies that C4D's logo remains the blue marble we have grown to know and love just as Redshift and Red Giant have their own unique logo's. Dave

Someone at MAXON actually designed that logo? Are you sure? ...meanwhile...deep in the Millennium Entertainment corporate office a phone call is made to their brand protection team..... Dave

I agree. I think MAXON does themselves a disserve by calling these midyear releases S24...I mean they only had 6 months to work on it since R23. Rather, they should be called S23.5 in order to appropriately set expectations. Personally, I do like the new asset browser and place tools. The best plugin made by e-on for C4D was Carbon Scatter which they discontinued for reasons I cannot imagine so the new place tools are a welcome addition. The ability to download ONLY certain assets encourages me to use them more simply because prior to that change, you had to download 3 to 6Gb of content with each release and there was nothing that told you which content was new since the previous release and (more importantly) NOT included in the new library since the previous release (AKAIK). Thus I find myself with multiple content browser libraries on my hard drive taking up space. Talk about hard-drive bloat. So honestly, this is a great change. Also, always happy to see better Redshift integration as I purchased that software with their 30% off sale (it was a no-brainer purchase). Honestly, if you expect to see Redshift integration and are in need of a better rendering engine than AR, my gut feeling is that your best bet is to purchase Octane otherwise you will be waiting a long time for free Redshift. Should it happen in the future, then you are in a better position as you now have both Redshift and Octane. The continued improvement in animation tools are fulfilling a huge cry of past discontent among C4D users. Now, character animation is (IHMO) the toughest chore in 3D and skilled users are probably not in the majority. Therefore, you won't be hearing a loud chorus of praise from the user community for these changes. But if you are a C4D character animator, I would love to hear your feedback. Dave

Well...Beeple is the face of NFT (non-fungible token) based art...a blockchain data technique by which any digital content is established as ONE-OF-A-KIND. So because of that, Beeple "one-a-day" art just made him very wealthy and sold at auction for $69Million -- probably because it was the first maybe? BTW: If you want to see Beeple uncut and unfiltered, catch him at the Corridor Digital channel on YouTube. They also have a podcast on NFT's as well. Dave

A better spoiler. The business wizards at MAXON are going to announce tomorrow their sure fire and proven methodology for making money with C4D. Here is a sneak peak: Genius plan! Dave

Beeple uses his $69 Million dollar windfall from selling his crypto-art and purchases MAXON. As the new owner, he launches a new license program that if you create one piece of art every day between each release, then the cost of the next release is free. There is much rejoicing in the C4D community.

Interesting.....I always viewed his products as models of real world film/video production equipment and their place was in the pre-visualization of shooting set-ups prior to actual photography. Do these set-ups actually mimic via physical simulations the way real world cameras move? That is, how do they make the finished animation better? Dave

If MAXON purchased Insydium, then I would feel good about paying the annual $1000 for a perpetual upgrade as you would gain both Cycles GPU and a kick- particle, fluid dynamics, n-systems physics engine. But honestly, I feel that MAXON has more to gain by that acquisition than does Insydium -- so it probably will not happen. X-Particles is about 50% of the reason why I have not bolted to Blender. The Insydium team has just done a tremendous job with their pace of development, training, and being very fair with their upgrade pricing. Doesn't Insydium also push out a new release around this time of year as well? Their releases have yet to let me down --- always very exciting. Dave

Interesting discussion. I went to "Getting started" page at the SideFX site and reviewed their "Core Essentials" course outline. As expected, there is a lot of content on the interface, viewport navigation, snapping, etc. But what I was hoping to see are short mini classes into the basic functions of modeling: beveling, sub-division surfaces, extruding, etc. As a 5 hour "core essentials" course, I was a little disappointed. One other question: is EVERYTHING procedural in Houdini? I looked at Igor's node list for his golden ball (or golden snitch from Harry Potter), and there are over 70 nodes to create that object. I then wondered if modeling that in C4D would require over 70 modeling and texturing steps? I am thinking probably not. Now, as it is procedural, you are in fact creating a platform for multiple variations of that golden ball. As an analogy, the closet equivalent to C4D (pre-nodes) would be that you are creating a "golden snitch" plugin. But imagine if your only approaching to modeling anything in C4D was to create full plugin for creating that finished object! If you agree with that analogy, then as you get more involved with Houdini do you think that at some point you will be asking yourself: "Is the procedural approach really worth all this effort?" Or another way to look at is this: "How long do you think it will take you to get as proficient and as fast at modeling with Houdini as you are in C4D?" Dave

As all the modeling is procedural, then does it ONLY create quads? If so, you are starting on the right foot towards Cebera's standards 😀 One other question....what is the Help file like and can you search on an action you want to take and then get the recommended node with a full explanation of all its internal settings? Now I have ZERO understanding of Houdini, but I would imagine a good bridge between the destructive mode of modeling and the non-destructive procedural method of modeling is to help the user map their prior knowledge of destructive modeling commands (bevel, cut, bridge, etc) to the Houdini nodes (if they go by different names). Dave

So it is able to -- in real time -- work through the following steps: Figure out the 3D position of every pixel in the terrain that is has just scanned Form the 3D topology from those pixel positions Identify the gaps in that topology (or calculate the discontinuity in the surface mesh) Reverse calculate where the best camera viewing angle would be to fill those gaps Translate that viewing angle back into a real world GPS coordinate position, and finally Direct the drone to that position and angle. Once completed, the algorithm would have to recalculate steps 1 to 3 again to insure that gap was successfully closed before moving to the next gap. Well....color me amazed. I would imagine that all the drone pilot has to do is point the drone toward the main target, define a preliminary flight path around that initial target position and then make sure there is enough memory storage and power for the drone to complete its task. At this rate, pretty soon the only thing the VFX artist or team will have to worry about is whether or not there are enough Keurig cups in the breakroom. Dave

All, We should be thankful that Adrien pointed out the issue. Regardless of your position or circumstances regarding financial support, his points are valid in that having ads get in the way of the Cafe experience is NOT good for the Cafe in any way. Let's not misinterpret bringing up a valid complaint against site performance with a negative opinion on how the Cafe funds its activities. Thankfully, our valiant owner is on the case and working to a solution. BTW: Regardless of the new name, this place will ALWAYS be "The Cafe" in my mind. Regardless of whether or not the site embraces other software programs (which would be great), it will always be "The C4D Cafe" to me. In fact, I feel compelled to shout that out that fact right now: Core4D really is THE CINEMA 4D CAFE There, that should annoy a few people....and they know who they are. Dave