3D-Pangel

As a resident of New England....the Patriots! Mac Jones is coming along nicely (rookie of the year?) and Matt Judon finally gives something we have always wanted: a strong defense. We are favored behind the Chiefs for taking the AFC title and Buc's (where Brady is now) is favored for taking the NFC title. So just imagine that Super Bowl match-up!!!! Brains will literally explode! Dave

Great series (IMHO). I started watching it with some trepidation as the original series from the 1960's was just unwatchable for me, even as a kid. This is one update where every choice on what to change worked. Great story....good action and the plot holds together across all the season. There are plot holes in some places, but you are having so much fun watching it you don't care. Visually, the Netflix series is just a joy to watch. I had no idea until I saw those VFX reels exactly which parts were fake or not. I correctly guessed on a few but was off by a wide margin on just how much was fake. The weakest "EFX" in Season 1 was the robot suit. The arm extensions just stood out like a sore thumb and the suit was incredibly rigid. Not sure if they fixed those issues in Seasons 2 and 3 by using a foam latex body suit with fiberglass armor pieces over it or if it was that way in Season 1 as well, but the suit just looks better to me in later seasons. Between Lost in Space, Arcane, and a few other movies/series, Netflix streaming is only replaced on my TV by the NFL. Dave

Excellent points. If you want examples of how bad core rewrite can go, just look a Lightwave. But with that said, customers do have a right to certain expectations on quality given what they are paying. I think that is where most of the angst comes from because when you do peel the surface on what Maxon has actually accomplished (a complete core rewrite while not tanking the company) then there is a lot to admire. But what happened was that before anyone could really see the benefits of the new core (now fully showing itself with capsules). they flipped to subscriptions. That was kind of a thumb in the eye to all the Studio owners who stood by and supported Maxon by paying a higher MSA premium price for upgrades that were mostly non-Studio impacting. Everyone seems to forget that, but I feel that is the source of angst when you strip everything away and get to the heart of the matter. But let's not go there again please! So you are not the first ex-Maxon employee to be referenced or show up on the forum. I do get the sense of an increase in turn-over since R20 and you have to wonder how fast new people can pick up an unfamiliar code base to the same level of proficiency held by the original developer(s). Per Anders was a huge loss (how did they allow that to happen?) and I would imagine his shoes have yet to be filled. So does increased turn-over also lead to more bugs particularly as you trying to fit a new core into an old skin? Is that happening as well?

You do bring up an interesting point. How does the steady decline in C4D stability impact subscribers? Do you still have access to previous releases or is your only option to use the latest release? Plus, even if you can use a previous version, paying annually to use the same version will definitely make you wonder why you are in the subscription program to begin with. So many people have quoted Maxon talking points concerning Maxon One subscription rate rising and that this strategy is working. It is almost being made as a counter point by the Maxon acolytes to tell those who are upset with the direction of C4D to stop complaining. Sorry, but I don't like being gas lighted by propaganda from anyone so relative to increasing subscription rates I also want to see data on how many are REPEAT subscribers! What is the rate of growth for people who have been staying in the subscription program for two and three years (e.g., going back to 2019)? I would like to see those rates for Maxon One, C4D, Redshift and Red Giant subscriptions. Is that number thinning out? If it is, then what you are seeing is people trying a subscription for one year ONLY. Yes, that number can grow from year to year but if they are then dropping out, eventually (after everyone has had a taste of Maxon's products and left) it will start to drop. That is NOT a good thing for long term growth. The true financial benefit of SaaS to a company is the re-occurring revenue it provides for REPEAT customers. This may explain Maxon's acquisition strategy and buying Z-Brush. Add more to the basket of goods to keep people in one of their subscription plans. R25 was definitely a mortal wound to people's attraction to C4D subscriptions. Increasing instability since R20 does not help either. Fixing 352 bugs helped but creating a few more in the process is just another black eye. So Maxon's mojo in the marketplace used to be based on C4D's stability and that confidence has been shaken. Now, Maxon is building a new mojo through acquisition, and I am sure that trend will continue. In essence, all this points to one conclusion: Maxon cares more about Maxon One than it does about C4D.

Obviously only a "Karen" would make that comment. Props to a "Cairyn" for calling it out.

I wonder if the contributing factor to all the bugs in R25 was that the interface changed drastically. Not that the change itself caused the bugs, but learning a whole new interface slowed down the testing phase. Very hard to give software a rigorous test if you have to re-learn how to use it. Not saying it is impossible to do (of course it isn't) but remember that with mid-year releases you only get 6 months for each one (at best) and I think R24 was released a bit later than normal giving less time for testing R25. Honestly, Maxon needs to drop the mandate that there has to be release every September. September releases are only for perpetual license holders anyway.

Ahhh....so this is a good thing! I warned that was NOT a good argument. Thankfully, you are not a Maxon employee. Acceptance of mediocrity is NEVER a good thing and companies that fall into the trap of "well it was really hard so this many bugs is okay" quickly lose business to those companies which raise the bar on quality with every release. Remember, Maxon's claim to fame used to be rock solid stability. It took years to get to that point. All it can take is one bad release to lose that reputation. That is why they should never accept mediocrity and should constantly be challenging and improving the quality controls they put into their release process. Something got dropped with R25 in this respect and it needs to be route caused so it never happens again (actually, every release should have a post-mortem review no matter how smooth or rocky it was). Just because it is "hard" or "always buggy" is a weak excuse and an overall losing strategy. Maxon needs to constantly raise the bar for two reasons: to protect their brand name reputation and because of the price they charge (you do get what you pay for and C4D is not cheap). Mediocrity and excuses should never be acceptable to any company that cares about the quality they deliver to the customer.

Okay....in case anyone is counting, there were 352 bug fixes in that release. I mean, props to the team for fixing them all so quickly...but nevertheless that has to be a record. And if it is, not the type of record you should be proud of. Honestly! What happened? I sincerely hope Maxon has a postmortem on all that went wrong with R25. I mean, it was a release that was extremely lean on features but had a huge number of things go wrong with it judging by the number of bug fixes. What happened to the quality? How did you lose the recipe? Please someone from Maxon try and sell me that this is normal, or this is a good thing, or that there is nothing to see here, so please move on. Please, have a go a gas-lighting me...but I warn you that will be a mistake. The smart move would be to own up to it and tell us why it will never happen again. That will earn my respect.

Some very interesting posts on this thread. Interesting that Maxon has become Adobe in terms of artists perceptions. Some have stated that Maxon "rushed out" to purchase Z-Brush. I really don't think that was the case. Acquisitions take a great deal of time to negotiate if you want to get a fair price plus there are regulatory considerations and due-diligence investigations in Z-Brush's value, debt, assets, etc. In short, an acquisition is never an impulse purchase. This is part of a long- term strategy. So, what is the end state and what is driving this strategy? Well, I do believe that pace of C4D innovation significantly slowed after R20. Since then, it has been nothing but catch-up. Nodes could be source of innovation but is now only starting to show its potential -- in short, taking too long to implement and capture the market attention necessary to keep C4D competitive. And that is the crux of the problem. The pace of improvement is just too slow for C4D especially with Blender chugging along. To continue explaining the Z-Brush acquisition, you need to consider that the long-term strategy for Maxon is to grow Maxon One services more than any of its individual subscriptions or perpetual licenses. Everything Maxon does needs to be considered with respect to Maxon One and Maxon One ONLY makes sense for users if it offers a suite of inter-connected applications that support the user's artistic goals. Otherwise, save some money and just buy the individual licenses. The core of Maxon One is C4D. Everything connects to or uses C4D within the Maxon One suite of services. The value of Maxon One is tied to the success of C4D in the marketplace. Unfortunately, C4D development is faltering as it is less innovation and more catch-up. The big 2021 innovation for C4D was the new interface and that came out looking like Blenders with the added benefit of missing icons. So, if C4D falters in the marketplace, then so does Maxon One. You have two choices if you want to grow the services of Maxon One: More investment in R&D to organically grow the capabilities of its existing products or use part of that R&D budget for acquisition. If your long-term strategy is Maxon One, then acquisitions can immediately feed into the value of Maxon One much faster than organically grown R&D funded projects. Plus, the marketing is built into the acquisition. Z-Brush is a well-known brand. That brand value now increases Maxon One's brand value. Plus, it sounds like Z-Brush was ripe for acquisition given their financials. In my view, it was a no-brainer. Now, I hate subscriptions especially when they take something away for the same amount of money. C4D subscriptions did just that because you were paying the same but lost perpetual access. In contrast, I looked at Adobe's Creative Cloud and saw more value in what they were offering in that there was a much larger suite of products to choose from for a fair price that was easier on the annual pocketbook with a fair monthly billing charge. Maxon's started subscriptions with just C4D. Now that suite of products is growing and if the price stays the same then the value of Maxon One increases with each new acquisition. Give me a great deal of value for my dollar with a Maxon One license and giving up perpetual access now starts to make sense. Unfortunately, I am not a sculptor, I don't use After Effects so I have no use for Forger, Z-Brush or Red Giant. But should Maxon's acquisition strategy continue while keeping Maxon One subscription price's affordable (or offer indie pricing), then I could be enticed into that program. What would it take? Well, purchase Insydium, e-on, Jawset, Otoy, Embergen and the assets of Kitbash 3D and I think you may actually have something. ....or they become greedy blood sucking leaches and we all go to Blender. Dave

This is probably the only time I feel justified in telling you are wrong...but here goes: You wrote that after ONLY a few months since giving up wedding band music? A few months!! Still in your infancy!!! I know people who go years and years without achieving anything as textured and complete as those pieces you put on Soundcloud. I've also heard a lot of crap from people who think making "epic" music means more bass with lots of braaahms and wooshes. Some of that type of "epic" music can be found on heavy hitter sites like Extreme Music.com (who host greats like Hans Zimmer, Johan Johannsson. Michael Giacchino, John Powell, Bear McCreary, etc). If Extreme Music.com features that type of "epic" music, then your music will easily be embraced because it is that much better than a synthesized collection of braahms and wooshes. Honestly, I don't think you know just how good you really are. But I am excited that you are going to keep up with it. Should you ever get discouraged, ring me up so I can remind you of that simple fact. Dave

Please do so because I am utterly blown away. Was that you playing the piano on "The Long and Winding Road"? I spend most of my time listening to orchestral or piano music and if someone told that those two pieces were composed by noted contemporary composers or that "The Long and Winding Road" was composed by Johann Johannsson or played by George Winston, I would have believed it. Honestly, I hate to say this because you bring so much to the 3D community, but I think you have a brighter future with music. Math and music go together so I guess music and 3D should go together as well. Just amazing. Dave

I would love to hear your music. I actually scour the web for streaming sites where artists post the music that they have made for productions, TV or documentaries. I just love orchestral music that creates a mood---be it action, horror, drama, etc. Sites like Extreme Music, Bleeding Fingers, Brand-X, Position Music, Gothic Storm, AudioMachine are some of my favorites. I just go to the site, hit play and the music helps me get in the zone be it at work or when doing 3D. I have a newfound respect for your talent's sir. 3D is hard but composing music is harder (IMHO). You are a modern day Rennaissance Man Dave

The edge flow transitions are just outstanding, inspiring and I always learn something from every one of your meshes. ...well, I learn what to do. Actually doing it is a completely different story. You mentioned in the first post that the piece came back to you for the music? Can you tell us more? Did you perform it, compose it or just edit it in? Really nice clean music as well. Dave P.S. Clean meshes, clean music. How clean is your work space? Please tell me you are human and it is a completely messy and unorganized pile of papers, old coffee cups, and half eaten bags of Cheetos.

Hmmm....Hardware as a Service (of DaaS) is a real thing right now. Basically, it is an equipment lease model, and the enticement is to upgrade your hardware when the lease is up. Now, that model works because the hardware STILL WORKS after the lease expires. You are still paying the monthly lease costs but just not getting the benefits of a hardware upgrade. But imagine if something was put in the BIOS such that after a certain date when the lease period expires, the machine will not boot! So many issues with this but I have heard it discussed. We can only hope it does not happen. Dave

Hah!! I have you beat! I have 65,536 of these bad boys networked together into a 2-bit neural network capable of calculating the sales tax on up to 5,000 cups of Starbucks coffee in less than 6 days!! Beat that! Dave

I just threw out every box and disk from R9 through R18. Each box was broken down and everything was sent to recycling. Your drink bottle of the future could be made from those plastic DVD's. 😀

Plus Blender supports making bug fixes available for more than 3 months after you purchase....err I mean download...your perpetual license.....errr.....I mean open source....version. Sorry...there is just no way you can fault Blender relative to customer support on quality when you factor in the number of new features in each release vs. the cost they charge for that release -- which is zero. The comparison to C4D is not even valid because given what Maxon charges, we should expect perfection. Unfortunately, since R20 that expectation is only shared by the users. Knowingly shipping a release with missing icons is just not acceptable. You want to give me something that is relevant, growing in capability, improving and free! Well, then I can forgive a few bugs that will be quickly fixed. Dave

Sooo...... How do you feel about missing icons?

Yes...we all blame you when we decide NOT to take advantage of the deals highlighted on this thread. We would have been much happier in our ignorance. errr......NOT! Always knowing your options is best...so keep them coming and don't give it a second thought! Any controversy on the Black Friday Deal lays at the feet of the merchant and not you. It is a sad fact that it is the nature of some Merchants to present their Black Friday deals with more sizzle than steak. They seem like a huge deal but in reality, they do not live up the initial promise. There is no arguing with straight discounts --- but everyone should be a smart consumer when it comes to discounts on subscription plans that offer a bundle of services.... especially when those discounts are only available through purchasing other bundled subscription plans that have their own discounts. Is this an invitation to an all you can buffet or just a limited menu? If you can't figure that out until after you pay for the meal, then probably smart to give it a pass. The next big question should be: will I get the same deal next year? Is this a one-year benefit or just a ploy to get me locked into a subscription plan at standard cost. In short, it is easier to gas-light the consumer with the promise of huge savings or huge access to other products with a subscription plan because all those benefits can go away with anything you rent when the lease expires never to be available again with a future renewal. Here the old adage "if it sounds too good to be true, it probably isn't" applies. Discounts on perpetual products are just so much straight forward. Do you like the savings or not for what you are going to own? Dave

HappyPolygon, Could you please provide more information such as what version of C4D you last saw these capabilities? Maybe even posting a screen shot from that version to help explain what you are looking for in R25. Also, your profile has R6 listed (or rather R6+). I came into C4D around R9 so maybe those features were gone by the time R9 was released but I do not recall them. The oldest version of C4D I have still on my machine is R19 and that is only to manage asset conversions of old files to the new architecture. I created a loft in R19 and a light but could not duplicate the features that you are referring to. Cerbera, I don't think you are misremembering it. If these were R6 capabilities, that was 22 years ago. Dave

As with Kitbash3D access, I am pretty sure that you only get access to the Octane content (shaders, tutorials, etc). I would be surprised if you got full Greyscale Gorilla + content such as plugins and models, but I could be wrong. Plus this ONLY applies to NEW subscriptions so it is a one-time deal only. Unfortunately, the "More Info" link just takes you to their sign-up page, so what is actually included could all be speculation on my part. Sorry...if you are going to only show the true details of what you are actually buying until AFTER you buy it, that is a pass for me no matter how good you "think" the deal will be. But, Greyscale Gorilla aside (and I will admit that have trust issues with them anyway given how they will no longer support past plugin purchases with upgrades unless I sign up for GSG+), the overall attractiveness of a subscription is in direct proportion to what they are giving you relative to what they are charging. At $16/month (USD), then this is a subscription plan I am attracted to. Dave

When you compare it to the Otoy subscription bundle, it is a bust. I mean, for $30 USD LESS THAN the discounted price on a Fused plan, you get access to Kitbash 3D Assets (for Octane only) Greyscale Gorilla + Embergen (real time GPU enabled gaseous fluids) Architron (old LWCAD for C4D) World Creator (full featured landscape generator) Lightstage Meta Faces (human scan library) RNDR (Cloud rendering) Not sure how Insydium can compete with that. As a long time Insydium fan, I have to say that was very tempting. Dave

Hmmm....sorry....no sympathy here. You will understand after you read this post. Still not sleeping well because of it. Dave

Agreed. And in case Insydium did not need any more motivation, there is Reactions (TFD V2) in beta which is also GPU based (though not sure real time like Embergen). The big detractor to Embergen is that it is standalone which means importing cameras and objects and exporting VDB channels for rendering in Octane in the host DCC application. That is a bit cumbersome....kind of like working with Lightwave's modeler program and having to always jump back and forth between it and the layout program. In short, bi-modal workflows are not always the most efficient. If Insydium was GPU based and totally integrated with Redshift, then that would be huge for C4D. Honestly, Maxon should buy Insydium and then unleash the Redshift GPU programming wizards on XP to speed up the development of a GPU version. Having a native GPU based multi-physics fluid/cloth/grains/smoke/fire/dynamic particle system within C4D capable of scaling to massive particle counts plugs a huge number of holes in C4D's toolset. It not only strengthens C4D but kills any desire for anyone to consider working with Embergen. And considering that Embergen requires Octane, removing the need to use Octane for Embergen because everything exists natively in C4D helps also helps Redshift. Dave

One more (there is always room for one more deal) Globe Plants: 40% OFF Using Code BFCM21