No One

I never used the Geometry Nodes in Blender, so I can't really give an opinion on that. I don't know if they are easy to use as Xpresso or needless complex as Scene Nodes. But I can tell you that Blender users tend to be very different than Cinema 4D users. Due to Blender's workflow which is heavily based on keyboard shortcuts, its users tend to be more technical than Cinema 4D users, which are more visual inclined. Cinema 4D became relevant for two reasons: the Mograph tools and the easy to learn workflow, mostly visually based (great UI, easy to read icons, etc...) which let user bypass the more technical demands of software such as Maya. Scene Nodes goes against that, thus it's a big mistake. Specially when C4D already has a great and super easy to use node-based script system: Xpresso. They should just update and improve Xpresso.

I think it's great that is not scene nodes. Scene nodes are a mistake, C4D is not Houdini or Softimage. Different type of users. Maxon is clueless. They should improve Xpresso instead os wasting time in another, much more complex, node scripting system. Autodesk did something similar with the Max Creation Graph for 3ds Max (released in 2016, I think) but almost no one uses it right now. Max users kept using Maxscript, because it's easier and what they have being using for years. But back to the topic: Amazing work @HappyPolygon! I can see myself using this in a future project. Looks great.

Well, Maxon already had Forge but then they bought Zbrush... But if you're talking about Redshift RT, I don't think that's comparable to U-Render. Redshift RT is great, but it's more akin to Octane Direct Lighting or Arnold GPU. it's not a super fast game-engine-like renderer like U-Render is (as you know, as you were working there). Anyway, it was just an idea, maybe @DMcGavranwill spare some minutes to look into it. Just trying to help.

Hey @DMcGavran, what about another purchase for Maxon? U-Render would be PERFECT as the new viewport and quick renderer of Cinema 4D. it would complement (and not compete) Redshift very well.

Oh man, that's so sad to read 😞 I've been using U-render since the beta in 2018 (and later bought a license in 2020). I had high hopes for you guys. I can't believe you're closing now that you were about to release the Maya version. That would have been a game changer! 😞 First of all, kudos to you guys for giving a perpetual license to all clients you had! Thank you so much. Big show of ethics here, so rare in the tech field these days. Second, is there any chance you guys (or the renderer at least) could be acquired by Maxon or Autodesk? U-Render would be the perfect viewport renderer for Cinema 4D, Maya and/or 3ds Max. This way your creation would live on and Maxon or Autodesk would finally catch up (at least partially) with Eevee and Unreal. .

"Dickhead". Yeah, stay classy BoganTW. I REALLY hope Maxon is paying you well. If you're really paying for your subscription with your own money, I hate to tell you that Maxon is exploiting your free labor.

Dude, you're in such a hurry to defend Maxon that you didn't even realize that I'm not the OP...

What about being a shill for a company bad practices? Does that make you feel better?

I honestly hope that BoganTW is being paid by Maxon. If not, he should. I've never seem such devotion to defend defenseless acts from a Big Corporation ignoring and/or harming their loyal users.... Honestly,, as I said before, this dichotomy of "subs lovers" vs "subs haters" that BoganTW talks about is artificial, it does not happen in real life. Most people do not have a binary thinking about that. I would guess most people have a more nuanced view about the issue. For example, I like some of my subscriptions because they are affordable ((i.e. Octane, Adobe, Maya, etc...) and I didn't subscribe to others because the value is not there (i.e. Cinema 4D). I would definitely subscribe C4D if we had a Indie version, half the price of Maya Indie. In both cases, the subs I like and the subs I don't, I hate the fact that I won't have access to my files if I stop the subscription.. And I would support legislative action to stop this anti-consumer behavior. But this opinion if very far from the "subscription hater" strawman that BoganTW likes to attack.

Yep. Subscription can be a double edged sword: if it is cheap it can eliminate or reduce piracy (e.g. Adobe and Octane). But if it is expansive, it can increase it (my guess that's what will happen with Cinema 4D). That's not how it works for artists. You won't be successful trying to impose a Wall Street mentality to artists (and I say this as someone very successful in investing in stocks). We are artists, Cinema 4D is (or was) our main art making tool, like the pencil for an illustrator or a guitar for a musician. Ask those latter two if they would like to live in a world were they cannot own their main art making tool? They would hate it. Like we do.

Maxon is ignoring the fact that they need new users and students to grow. But they have shown a total lack of respect for those users: 1) They got rid of the cheaper versions of C4D (Prime and Bodypaint), 2) They started charging for student versions (while every other DCC student version is free), 3) They refuse to create a cheaper or free indie version, 4) And their subscription price is too high. Subscriptions can be attractive if they are really cheap. I gladly pay my Octane subscription because it is cheap. Adobe slashed piracy with their subscription because it is really cheap too (and they have different prices for different markets, taking in consideration the local cost of living). But Maxon subscription is ridiculous expensive. It's not worthy.

That's amazing. I'm really looking forward to this release. It will be a game changing render for Maya. Almost like having Unreal inside Maya, no export needed.

Unless Maxon releases a low-cost or free C4D indie, I think Cinema 4d will go the way of Lightwave (best scenario) or Animation Master/Strata3D/Electric Image/etc... (worst scenario). They will keep their current and professional users, but there is no reason for students and new users to use Cinema 4D when they can get Maya and 3ds Max for less than U$300 and Blender and Houdini for free. But I think they don't care. They bought three heavyweights (Zbrush, Red Shift and Red Giant) and those will be their focus from now on. Because this forum used to be the Cinema4D café, we tend to think of Maxon as the Cinema 4D company, but that's not the case anymore Well, at least Cinema 4D 2023 is a good release. They could have been a little bit more generous and let that be the last perpetual version,, but I wasn't expecting AdobeGuy to be generous.

I was expecting this to happen with Cinema4D but the even saddest news is that Zbrush is probably the next one.

Your hunch is pretty wrong. The condescending assumption that I don't know how much time it takes to get comfortable with a DCC is typical of Blender fanboys. I've been a professional 3D artist since my last year of high school and teach this at university level. I'm pretty high skilled in Maya and Cinema 4D. When Blender 2.8 was released was super enthusiastic about it (because the prior versions of Blender were crap. Right click selection anyone?) and spent six months learning the software. I'm ok at it. I just don't like it. The short-cut depended workflow is the anti-thesis of Cinema 4D and Maya. And, frankly, of any other professional DCC. Blender fans should accept that some people just don't like Blender. It doesn't mean we didn't study the software properly.

I'm in my late 30s. I remember well a world with privacy. My friends on their early 30s also remember. But you are right, the younger (and, ironic, the really old but nor tech savvy) some is, the higher the probability they will disregard these worries. I teach kids between 18-23 years, and it's really another universe. We let a whole generation to be indoctrinated, shaped and educated by Big Tech. They don't know (and probably never will) what is to actually live in a world without total surveillance. Kinda sad. I hate subscriptions but I'm going along as long as the software it is still installed in my computer (and my projects too). The moment Cinema 4D and Maya decide to go 100% Cloud, then I'll have to jump to Blender. But that sucks, because we only have one open-source option...Blender. No othher option at all, I honestly don't like the software, even after the 2.8 revamp

I think you are correctly and this will happen. But that doesn't mean it's a good thing. it is not. And it is not a natural thing too, it is being imposed on us by the same big corporations who wants to force us to own nothing and rent everything. SaaS is an abomination in terms of individual liberty and privacy. One way of fighting this would be to shorten the copyright and patent of software for something like 5 or 10 years. I could work just fine with Cinema 4D R14 or Maya 2013 if needed.

Thanks for the explanation. But wouldn't be possible to create, lets say, a Xpresso-like higher level Node system to control the Scene nodes? Because what was shown to us until now is way more complicated than Xpresso and not something very artist friendly.

I think scene nodes were a mistake. They should have focused on improving Xpresso (better UI, better UI Scaling, multi-thread, etc...) and bringing the scene nodes abilities to Xpresso. I'm very high skilled in Xpresso and I use nodes in other software constantly (Maya, Unreal, etc...) and I never bothered even checking the Scene Nodes. Why should I? If they can abandon Xpresso, why should I learn another node based scripting language from Maxon? Just so they can abandon it again some years down the road? Anyway, I'm really happy with C4D 2023 (sans the horrible colors). I think it's the best version since R20. But maybe this omission of Scene nodes means they are reconsidering their strategy. Maybe they will see the light and focus on improving Xpresso.

Not really. With Quad draw you can just paint points wherever you want and later create the polygons, just hovering over four points. Among other stuff. I'd love to be able to do this with the polypen. Polypen is good, but Quad Draw is easier to use and more powerful.

You had me on "Symmetry"!!! Finally! The ability of creating polygroups for Zbrush inside Cinema4D is great too. Congrats! P.S. But can we PLEASE get the original Cinema 4D colors back? At least as an option? The whole grey and purple is horrible and hard to read. Even people that liked the new UI dislike the new colors.

Thanks for proving my point.

You're not the only one. it was in poor taste. Especially if we consider that McGravan sent his employees to this forum to harass the users who dared called him "AdobeGuy" in a joking manner during the subscription transition. I guess jokes are ok for CEOs, not for mere mortals.

There is no narrative Igor. My post is specifically about the thread that was just locked, not about the forum as a whole or other threads. It is about a very specific case. As I said in my OP, I'm not against moderation. I'm against arbitrary power trips mascarading as moderation, which was the case here. It would help to have clear rules of what is allowed or not, instead of "Whatever Cerbera does not want to read today." Are we not allowed to criticize Maxon (which seems what Cerbera and HappyPolygon consider "toxic")? If yes, let this be a clear and transparent rule. At least I'd like to know what I am allowed to say or not. Also, notice that Cerberas only thinks a criticism is toxic if Maxon is criticized. Autodesk and Blender are ok. Kinda arbitrary, no?

Thank you for the insight. I remember you were active as a moderator in the C4D forum. It was sad to see CGTalk become what it is now.