FLima

Watching the live presentation on youtube from MAXON, was... an experience. I've already given my opinion regarding what I thought of this update in previous pages, but it is clear that Beeple's artworks were a big influence on these new features. Everything focused so we dont have to go on turbosquid and download premade assets, things are made much easier to produce quick instagram/NFT artwork and get those sweet ETH's. (Who cares about the evironment, the questionable scheme and unregulated system and questionable, very questionable taste of beeples artworks, am I right?) And hey, more artists making NFT's more chances to get the MAXON name out on the next million dollar purchase of NFT's? Sweet! But on top of all this, the thing that upset me the most, was the "please, stay postive, be positive, have a positive attitude and we will reward you with a 'NFtee-shirt... ' It is by far, one of the most disgusting things I've seen so far. No MAXON, environment doesnt work like that, there is no such thing as "We guys, we should stop being negative about NFT's.. hey, LOOK, we are planting trees!" And attempting to treat us like obeying little boys and girls, attempting to discourage us of having a strong opinion. And pretend we are impressed by your obvious attempt to disguise your sideing with NFT. After 13 years using C4D, this is the biggest incentive I needed to move on to a different software. The subpar update on this expensive software alone was already a good reason by itself. But on top of all that, having to hear "Hey, if you are a positive boy, we reward you with a t-shirt" it is... something else. This "Behave and be positive" attitude really shows that deep down, the company is aware of which side on this issue is taking. But if you shush and be quiet about it, you get a nice t-shirt, and they will plant a tree! And just for the sake of argument regarding Beeple. here are some of his artworks that were sold in his 69 million dollars NFT sale. https://news.artnet.com/opinion/beeple-everydays-review-1951656/amp-page?__twitter_impression=true Hopefully MAXON doesnt focus on these works from Beeple for the next C4D update?

This! Omg... thank you! You summarized my frustration perfectly. This and the price of the current subscription. I know that the subscription is almost pocket money for a big studio in Europe or US. But for Brazil, a one-man freelancer, who has also paid for render engine, xparticles, etc... and their subsequent maintance payments. This is a lot to ask, with so little to offer in exchange. Having an indie option would lower a LOT these expectations and the feeling Im not getting enough.

I get it, people get annoyed when a software they love gets compared to a different software. And by no means, I ever attacked any MAXON developer or accused them of being lazy. This would've been absurd on my part and definitely not my intention here at all. And to be honest, if this wasnt a subscription model, I wouldnt think I would be this upset right now... But it is the business model that gets me you know? This bread crumbs of updates in exchange of the constant payment that we are required to make. This changes the dynamic of things, specially when you can (and I believe you have to) compare with other softwares. I dont want to turn this into a Maya vs Blender vs C4D debate, this is not it.

But I guess we cant be critical about things here, we are only allowed to say nice things about C4D? "Oh wait, are you frustrated with the software you have paid so much for? How dare you!"

I think the over simplification on this case is what gets me. This feels like you are talking to an mistakenly entitled fanboy of a popular rpg game of sorts. We are paying for this software, I am 40 years old and my life's work when it comes to 3D has a .c4d extension attached to it. If you managed to simply switch softwares and are having a good time right now, well, good for you. I feel like I earned my right to be upset when I feel not enough is being done by the software I depend on to work. And I feel that everyone is entitled to complain for something they pay a lot, and are feeling that their requests are falling into deaf ears. So please, dont over simplify this as a matter of "if you are unhappy, shut up and get out" I've invested on this! My time, my life, my money, all the necessary plugins to make the software work in a professional manner. And to answer Cerbera's position So whilst yes, I understand the frustration that people feel about lack of big new exciting things in every version, I find my happiness with the program relies on that sort of thing less and less all the time it remains a supremely comfortable and familiar place to work. I am not a kid that needs a "shiny exciting new feature" every update or release, What I want is quite the opposite, I want the core elements on the software to improve! Things that are there to begin with, but doesnt work efficiently right now. I want dynamics to have a new and effective engine. I want an actual useful Interactive render region, that is actually.. real time, and not this slow and clumky mess we currently have. Something that people working with NPR workflow can benefit directly. We need symmetry! What about Bodypaint? a forgotten part of the software! Remember the change on UV unwrap? That is the kind of change that we need. Not.. freaking.. horizon grid disappearing or the hability to use chromatic aberration inside the viewport..

I dont understand, this has been the same things said over the past years, since the subscription model was adopted. "Hey, this is cool little quality of life improvements, I like it" . Yeah, I get it, maybe this will be useful on the long haul, but this is not a substantial improvement on the software core elements, this is again, eyecandy. "Hey, take these presets, and be happy buddy, now you can do this quickly without having to think too much" This is even more real when you look at our friendly neighbour, Blender, with constant updates, and amazingly implementing new technology, not just UI changes, with a much better frequency, and a sensation that they are ACTUALLY listening to its user base. MAXON is doing none of that. This update was supposed to be "hey, you have switched to our subscription model, exchanged your nice and perpetual software and we are now holding your files at a cost, and should you wish to ever open this in the future, you better keep paying us, forever.. and ever...and..ever..." So now the process after this minimal update is the same: Pay again the maintance price for Redshift to have a compatible render engine to the latest update (Redshift who also have tunnel vision on their RT development and didnt improved much over the past year). Pay again for maintance for X-Particles to make sure it works with this last version... Rinse and repeat for every other plugin you have bought and needs, again, a maintance payment. (because now every company love to milk you for subscription money, and it will be a bit too late for you, when you realise you own nothing, but are paying a LOT each month) I have never felt so frustrated with a company before, and I feel like I'm being treated like an idiot, who is supposed to fork over any credit card I have to pay for this absurd price of a subscription, just so I can continue to open my files, having paid jobs or not. And at the same time, I should be actually happy and greatful for this, because... hey... - Grid fades based on distance (Hurraaayy)

This has got to be one of the most lackluster update ever.. . So, is this the "treat" for people who are subscribing, and supporting the software? More eyecandy features, but nothing really extremely substantial and essential to the software? Adding a new dynamic engine... fixing bodypaint.. changing the performance of the viewport and adding a realtime render engine to it... adding a proper symmetry... the list goes on and on. This update to me is.. they want to make it even easier for you to be the "next" beeple. Quickly grab those Donald Trumps and Hillary Clinton models, thowing without much work any biped preset animation, change hands here and there...drag and drop more models in your scene, and there ya go, mint your work and be rich with NFT's. This is really, really disappointing.

I guess we dont have to wait for too long for the anouncement of S24.. I think.. after these "exciting" announcements.. I will go to sleep.

Honestly, I dont doubt that. After seeing MAXON's CEO twitting about NFT's (sigh...)! Soon there will be NFT's chats about on MAXON's presentations, on "how cool NFT's are bro!" I agree 100% with everything you just said. And I really do hope I am wrong, but after seeing these weird eyecandy and useless features like...Magic Bullet Looks for the viewport, I am not sure we should have our hopes high. I think I wouldnt be so negative if it wasnt a subscription model, and at such a high cost! When you look around and see companies like Pixologic, who have yet to charge for an upgrade cost for Zbrush once you pay their perpetual license, and the existence of Blender.... even Maya Indie is a lot cheaper! I know the whole comparison is a subject that has been beaten to death... but I do think this update will set the tone on what future MAXON sees for C4D, and what path it will take. And what kind of users it expects to have... I hope finally we get a better integration with Redshift, a render engine they bought! And useful, really useful features, like a true viewport engine, And not things like: "hey, make your viewport a bit more yellow with chromatic aberration, you will like it!"

I had no idea about this... Thanks for sharing it with us!

We need some bug fixes.. and major improvements. The timeline copy/paste keyframe animation is a priority to be fixed in my opinion. Also, a GPU and improved toon shader. The Sketch and Toon module is very limited at the moment, and CPU dependent. Would love if it allowed us to use it just like the cell shader (letting me decide the overall gradients) and be of course, GPU based. I would also love to see improvements on the NLA and core rigging improvements, I dont want anymore premade character setup (toon, etc) I would love the core rigging to be improved. Specially the auto-weighting. Working on low-poly objects, the auto-weighting is a nightmare... Some very nice changes happened from R20 to R21, like allowing us to delete a polygon from a already skinned object, without losing the whole weight paint, Would be cool to see some of new improvements on that level again..

What makes it a bit difficult for me to implement Blender on my daily work is mostly due to 3 things: - Not so good outliner (very unintuitive way to organize scenes... objects, parents.. etc) - Lack of light-linking (having to rely 100% on composition to hide certain light to affect specific objects) and more importantly, not being able to select multiple objects (lights, bones, etc) and being able to change a specific parameter in all of them at the same time, same with keyframes. But aside from that, 24-year-old me, in front of a powerful software like that, at the beginning of my 3d career... I really wish this existed back then 🙂 it is amazing the amount of love it gets each update, and all for free! Also, the kind of work that has been outputed from Blender over the past 2 years, demonstrates how amazing this software is.

Heya @Shrike🙂 Im curious to know, why the maya indie version is terrible? I ask because I considered getting this license for myself in the future. Is it because of the income limitations? You cant make more than certain amount using this license and such... Or other reason?

I think it is important to remember is that... the indie licenses in general is not aimed at big studios, who are already with c4d in their pipeline, and of course, compared to another 3D package, like Maya for example, it is much cheaper... I think the indie option for C4D is essential for the "one-person" studios out there, hobbyst, freelancers, and anyone who wants to move towards a more 3D production, and cant make a living out of the software just yet. For these people, yes, C4D is super expensive. And I think it is extremely necessary for MAXON to start looking at this like other companies have already done. Maybe adding a cap on production income with the software, like Autodesk has done with Maya, is the way to go. Having a software being more inclusive and acessible to different types of professionals, with different incomes and realities is never a bad thing in my opinion.

That is a good input @Arte, thanks for that! It is a shame that facial rigging tutorial is in Chinese 😞 I bought one from Domestika, but it is for Maya.. and having a little trouble folliowing it along, but I will keep trying. And yeah, I tried some of the things in Blender, and I loved it.. but unfortunately, it is so clumky for other things, I couldnt really adapt to it. I dont plan switching 3D software anytime soon.

That is really cool! Thanks @everfresh!

Yes, sometimes this works, for me personally, but for a more complex approach, like facial rig, whenever we enter the area of constraints, etc.. things gets a bit cloudy, at least on my own experience. I bought a nice face rig tutorial from domestika for maya, and honestly, I am still struggling to bring this to C4D. But maybe this is my own personal limitation. That would be awesome!!! 🙂

Oh my... I'm almost 40 and living some middle-age crisis at this very moment. This thread is very triggering haha. I dont remember exactly when I joined the C4D Cafe the first time, probably around 2008... I was living in Ireland at the time, and when I was a bit lost with some rigging (even back then) I remember seeing some tutorials from Cactus Dan ❤️ if I'm not mistaken he even replied to a question I've had. There was also a very cool tutorial from him, a mech or a giant head with two feet. I think this was my very first rigging exercise. I started using C4D after a friend of mine persuaded me so much - I was using 3ds max at the time - and it was just...mind blowing, how welcoming the interface was! And still is 🙂

Thank you so much for your review on this!! Yeah, it is what I expected, there is some eyecandy... but not showing a proper face animation with joints and etc.. for that price, it is a bit of a let down. I will continue on the journey to find proper rigging tutorials for C4D. it is a shame really... I love C4D so much, it doesnt feel like I am working when I am doing things here. But rigging still feels like a niche place for C4D.

Yeah, he is amazing!! I dont think he is on Greyscalle Gorilla anymore. I think he is a genunine nice person, and super smart. If he ever does rigging tutorials, I will make sure to keep an eye!! But I think you agree with me no? That there arent many great rigging tutorials (ignoring those with the character module) out there.. I found one that looked interesting... but it is quite expensive (specially for the currency coversion in Brazil right now) https://motiondesign.school/products/rigging-and-animation-in-cinema-4d

I think that the main thing we are missing for character animation in C4D are tutorials. To show what the software can really achieve. There is very little on youtube and free access websites, and almost nothing on Gumroad/Udemy and etc... The last rigging tutorial uploaded on Cineversity is from 2018... And by tutorials, I dont mean the ones involving Character Animation module/ Mixamo integration. Whenever I try to find to rig a specific thing - last week was a front limb of a fox - it is one of the most frustrating experiences. A vast majority of tutorials are all involving the premade character rigs, but not actually teaching or explaining how to achieve such result. The best rigging tutorials are find are usually for Blender or Maya. And for the quadruped tutorial I tried to find for instance, the best one was by a guy called Pierrick Picaut - A genius in character animation in Blender.

Yes, this has been a big issue for me. Last year I was working in a shortfilm, and there were scenes where an interaction happens between 4 characters... The timeline becomes extremely slow to work with... But for one or two characters, it works like a charm.

Ha, good to know you are a gamer too Igor 🙂 I pre-purchased the game for Steam, and I think so far, I am enjoying the experience. But I can see that they didnt put the same amount of work on AI and some other minor details as they put on the environment, models, etc... It feels a bit frustrated, specially when you are chased by a cop, how weird and outdated it feels. But the story, the story is really good (when you dont find anyone during the quest line doing t-pose hehe) I thought of asking for a refund yesterday, because yeah, the game is not ready... but the story already got me hooked, so I am pushing it through! How you liking the story so far?

I gotta say, as a subscriber of C4D, and also owner of a perpetual license of R18. Not having the upgrade informations available to all customers, and acessible online worldwide... as easy as it is to purchase a new subscription... feels like a intentional bottleneck, to filter out everyone else who isnt a subscriber. There has to be a way to integrate a new business model (subscription) without having to make perpetual users to feel like complete outcasts? Also, speaking from a subscription client perspective, I feel that we need a more transparent roadmap of the software, things that we can look forward to. This update, personally for me, it isnt major to what I needed personally, comercially speaking. I dont use the premade character skeletons to any of my projects. The viewport changes were okay, but the magic bullet looks thing feels more like a gimmick than an actual improvement on things we wish we could do. There were no updates on NPR rendering, the toon shader remains untouched, no way to preview it on viewport without using interactive render region, that it is still..very slow to this day. There are some nice quality of life changes, and Im happy for those. And I appreciate all the hard work the developers put into this, and I know it is no simple process. But yeah man... this expensive subscription.. going in blind to every update. \