Jops
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Everything posted by Jops
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Yes, and I have absolutely nothing against you as a private person and I like to look back to this evening. But I have to accept that even though I told you about all this problems and feelings that come up now, right in the beginning, absolutely nothing has changed. You now take 175β¬ for a perpetual license transition? Look the only person that can change the way your customers feel and therefore react is you. As long as you squeeze them they will squeak. And even though I'm not proud of the tone of my last post, that I wrote while I was tired and hungry. I unfortunately think that it basically is true. And I find this disappointing. I think that giving a hard but honest feedback is much harder than just be cheering, but it never the less is no sign of antipathy. If i wouldn't love C4D and If I haven't met you I might just don't care. But this way I just don't understand. I think and already postet it, that capsules is super promising and I find it very shortsighted by many to not realize that. And I just can imagine what a fight it is to power through the new core and I adore this effort, but I find it hard to understand why it is important to at the same time fight your customers. best regards Jops
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listening in the sense of reading yes. listening in the sense of trying to understand and find a solution .... no. And therefor you are right, the result is generally not a conversation.
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dear kbar, i appreciate your contributions and your opinion very much. I am all the more surprised that you are of the opinion that one should please stop expressing one's opinion aloud after a certain time at the latest, because it doesn't help anyway. one should rather move on. I'm not sure if you expect the same from your own customers. By the way, my post was mainly about marketing and the, in my opinion, tendentious communication with customers.
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maybe you could consider reading my post again? I am not talking about the core rewrite at all (which is a good thing) I am talking about the marketing and the communication of the offerings. And these things have drastically changed since McGravan took over. There was a lot of hope back then that communication could change for the better, but unfortunately the inaccessibility before just was exchanged for mediocre marketing blah blah now.
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unfortunately thats not the priority anymore. They care about money. Even when they try to compensate it with very mediocer marketing blah blah (sorry, but it is true). That Money benefits mainly the managers that get Bonuses and the mother companies shareholders. For the normal employer (that might even hang around here) this brings not much more but worse mooded customers. And for the Customers it is tiring to always be taken for a fool. By statements like the "This is just untrue..." further up (marketing blah blah). Maxon can easily write a disclamer on the website that just explanes the situation clear and true and let the customer decide on real facts instead of info snippets that lures customers to buy or rent and lets them hang out to dry when they realise that they gave away their perpetual license for some month of subscription for example. Maxon more and more feels like a used car dealer where you have to crawl under the car and check everything they say, if that was the whole truth and after buying find out what they didn't tell you or what you didn't find. that for example functionality was removed without exchange. let mi try a true text example (I give Maxon the allowance to use it or get inspirited by it): you can Buy a perpetual version of C4D: that means you get the last R version that was released and maybe one bugfix update after 3 month or so. All features that are defined as beta or tech demo stay beta or tech demo. further you will not get any other update or bugfix whatsoever. you don't get access to cineversity or any other features that are subscription only. the perpetuity of the license might be limited by the accessibility to the activation server. or you can rent C4D with a subscription: subscription is cheaper, you get access to the latest version of C4D and all features that are subscription right now for example cineversity. These services might change while you are subscribed. you are not entitled to a defined amount of developement that goes into C4D nor any amount or type of feature. If you stop subscription you loose access to your files and there is no way to access these files again without resubscribing or buying a perpetual license. No matter how long your subscription was. If you are unhappy with the way C4D develops you can do basically nothing without loosing access to you files. You might complain in forums, but that has proven to be of little effect. of course this is just a example of a no Bullshit text π If it should sound nicer without adding bullshit or removing truth maxon of course just could change their offers that are described in the text.
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A very good analysis, but unfortunately I wouldn't be to shure about your first sentence.
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I think they just want the best for c4d and think it is a unnecessary and stupid Idea to diminish the future userbase for 3 bucks.
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The discussion is upside down. The student version is the cheapest and best way for a company to enshure that their software will get used in the future. If maxon can not afford to give it away for free thy have a major problem. If they are not willing to, they make a huge mistake. The 2.99$ are a nice indication for a student what kind of company they are dealing with. And if they want to bind their professional future on it and students are not stupid. Dont forget. Maxon wants them to use it. They are the future and are absolutely free to decide as they like.
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Dear Maxon, as perpetual users get just one bug fixing update (or should I say maybe, as even that is just free will by maxon as stated in the new EULA) Why should we buy a software with a new layout that is not finished? as nearly all the other new features of R25 are not finished!
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We already had two prices in this chat for a update from R21 to R25. So I called my reseller and here comes the third one: their upgrade price for R21 to R25 is round about 1650β¬ netto (without vat) for germany. BTW for any version up to R21 as far as I can see.
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I think that the impact of capsules is hugely underrated. I really think that it is a gamechanger. It doesn't have the speed of scene nodes yet, but It still is as much of a thing as xpresso was (which by the way also needed years to be recognized as groundbreaking). I would love to update my R21, but for the price stated above (nearly two thirds of a full version) .... hello? R21 is the last but one perpetual Version!
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something is obviously going on. If they just switched from browser based to app based for example there would be no need to download installers to not loose them. we will know tomorrow.
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I can not login, too, maybe because I didn't jet accept the new EULA that is blocking my R21 Startup.
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I wanted to start R21 yesterday. But without accepting the new EULA I can't start it. (juhu online activation) I right now don't have the time to properly read it. I am wondering why they change it and what changed. Jops
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@Igor I know you put a lot of effort into this side and any type of criticism by me is highly constructive meant. To be honest I have problems navigation core 4d besides the start page, I would love to have a go to forum button under the grouped threads on the startpage and the images on the forum overview (that is hard to find) make it hard to navigate (at least for me). I basically just look at the startpage. I write this into this thread, because maybe others also had problems to find this thread, that is nice and normal should have caught some attention. best regards Jops @Igor just now thet I wrote this to you I found the tabs. I am sorry, and will try to understand the navigation. I just was expecting some button. forums and then a overview over the forums. but maybe thats just me.
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oh wow. that is some time ago π but never the less. here is my feedback. very nice for a first work. congratulations. it looks very promising! as you asked for feedback: I think the tin material is to glossy, the reflections on the rim are to colorful you could use a floor even when the can is hovering and the background could need a bit love. I liked the music, the cut and the light compositing. I wish you a happy future in a profession where perfection is not reachable :)best regards Jops
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Yes and no. They are different kinds of software. They absolutely started for different target areas. But the last couple of years we have seen, that this two areas begin to merge. Game engines get better quality, and offline 3d is forced to get faster and cheaper. I don't Think that the discussion is: " Can Unreal do everything c4d does?" but more: "Why can't C4D have a easy, good looking wether system in c4d or why cant we have fast dust and fog rendering?") we had the discussion about the maturity of DCC aps and the "need" for subscription. I mean how complicated is it to make a boat drive through water in C4D? Yes Unreal doesn't look perfect, but hey For 90% of the tasks I would be good enough. There is absolutely no reason, why cinema should not and could not contain tools like that.
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I have not heard anyone complain about the subscription price in relation to the perpetual update. I have also never heard what a fantastic deal the perpetual to subscription deal has been. So there seems to be a trend there. In fact, this disparity is so obvious that it can't be overlooked. it might be time to acknowledge that. But it doesn't matter as long as people pay and the numbers add up. If this should no longer be the case at some point, you can no longer address the great loyal user base, because then even the last one will have understood that this is all just a business decision. Emotion is really not appropriate for a program for 3D art.
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You are right, but the combination of small Budgets, that lead to basic animations that everybody is used to nowerdays and the much better accessibility of education and tools seem to me a difference to back then.
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absolutely! And of course I should have said: "with the mass visibility of 3D animation, the public's expectation of quality does not increase. no, it decreases." Back in the days when someone talked about 3D animation everybody was thinking about Pixar because it was the only widely known Material . And that was the unreachable Target for the expectation. today 3D is everywhere and the threshold of acceptable quality is nowadays not so hard to achieve because it is lower, but also of course because the software got easier to use. Just think about photo realism before GI and linear workflow. Unbiased renderers with huge material preset librarys make it really quite easy.
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I would prefer to work with Cinema. It is just so much nicer for me to work with. But in Germany we have a saying: "Wessen Brot ich esse dessen Lied ich singe" Literally translated it means: "whose bread I eat whose song I sing." And in my surrounding (first hand experience) Agencies I work for are now forced to use Blender because the client's design department has rationalized away Cinema. So I take all my medioker Blender skills and try to satisfy my client. I see teenager that come into companies for a internship. If they are interested in 3D they all have blender skills. If they are good and can provide 60% to 80% quality of a freelancer the freelancer can say good bye. It is funny with the mass distribution of 3D software, the public's expectation of quality does not increase. no, it decreases. Every agency will try to earn money with cheap interns and free software, because the budgets are also in the basement π The only ones who still think 3D animation is an elitist matter are the manufacturers of the commercial software packages. It's not that I like this, not at all, I hate it, but it is what it is. We will see what happens, maybe I am wrong, but I believe that things change so drastically, that in 20 Years we will see a completely different picture.
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With the growing of a software the dependencies inside grow, too. And normally not linear but square. That slows down development. With the growing of the company the regulations grow and the amount of people that have some say in the development, too. in a small company the CTO and the developer decide. In a big one there are also project owner, project manager, UI depatement, quality control, and more involved. And this also lets the development explode. I have the impression, that maxon tries to tackle at least the technical side with the new core, a system, that should be (in my understanding) much more flexible than the old one. I really would be fine with this even though the development of new features is slow right now. But I don't like the business attitude of the new maxon. they are feature wise just not in the position to force their customers. They instead should try to produce good will. They also should give it away for free to anybody who wants to learn without the need to be student and the size of the university and all this. That is the only way to stay relevant. The situation has changed in the last two years. I see huge industry companies that switch to blender and they expect their agencies to build up blender know how. Autodesk tries to fight this development with indi licenses. If this is the right way I don't know, but the way maxon is acting in a almost arrogant way definitely not the solution. Adobe can do this because of its size and the market at the time they switched to subscription, but they also are getting a problem with Affinity and Black magic. The argument that subscription is needed because of the maturenes of the product..... well that might be true for a photoshop, but as long as we can not generate weather, clouds, fog, rain, buildings, streets, and so on parametrically with some sliders there is so much room for development (look at Unreal) the possibilities for development are still endless. So that can't be a reason for a 3D App. And the Game engines are also an other challenge. My impression is, that the commercial 3D software packages like C4D, Maya, 3DS really have a small time window to adept to not get chrushed between blender and the game engines. I as a 3D Artist in C4D already feel the changes. In the 20 Years I am doing this the changes where never so obvious fast and radical. I really hope, that maxon finds a adequate solution. I have the impression, that it needs bold and creative solutions now. subscription on its own will not save them in the long run.
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I use Null objects as targets in the relevant Hierarchies and use the PGW constraint to switch between these null targets. Not really elegant, but solid.
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I think after the RS subscription news it is quite obvious, that r25 will come with redshift. There maybe is a 5ΓΌ% chance that there is a perpetaul C4D Version. I guess with a price increase. The c4d RS subscription is going to end and will be replaced by the regular c4D subscription (with redshift included and mor expensive then the former c4d subscription). This way they can publish another version with few new features because readshift is the "new" feature. This way they can fight through the new core. We will see.
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I am not shure about that. For me this screams "unfortunately we are unable to continue c4d perpetual, as redshift is now included into the all new and expensive C4D subsciption and there is no perpetual redshift license" 20 years ago i started with c4d because I had the feeling that many people would love the userinterface. Now I have the feeling that in 20 Years a lot of people will use Blender, because subscription is not the right thing for everyone. And the companies have nothing against free software when it is capable and they find good artists. I don't know what I will do. All I know is that I finished the transition away from Adobe and am really xtreemly happy with it. Maybe I have to wait a couple of years till the request is there and blender is even better usable. The funy thung is, that I would prefer to pay for my software, so that the developers can make apropper living, but on the other hand I also can pay the blender foundation.