ingvarai

New users, who have not used C4D before, cannot recall anything at all. They just cannot benefit much from the vast amount of tutorials out there. When it comes to ruining "everything", ask Maxon themselves! They have gotten my money, for the Studio version, the last 10 years. Each and every year. Let us see how many there are here, in this forum, who can beat that. I can undoubtedly be categorized as a faithful customer. It was my own money, out of my own pocket. But Maxon did not get my money this year. And the main reason is the GUI change. My money may not mean "everything" to Maxon. But is sure means something, So, ask Maxon! -Ingvar

When (if) the OS starts to do that, I would become very angry. It would lead to hopeless situations. In Cinema 4D we can have our custom layouts. Multiple windows scattered all over multiple screens. Imagine the OS start to interfere here,, shudder.. -Ingvar

What do you mean? It has been like that for a long time already, when it comes to Explorer, When it comes to 3rd party applications, it is their responsibility to cater for this. I myself have written software since 1995, and the applications I write will remember the position, incase the user opts for this. -Ingvar

It was wrong to release a new version, as long as they had no real new version. It seems like the considerable GUI change was made, only to justify that at least some things had changed, since last version. By altering the GUI like this, making it almost unrecognizable from previous versions, a huge world wide library of C4D tutorials went up in smoke. Like the famous library in Alexandria. Missing icons - ambiguous icons - not the Maxon I got to know 10 years ago. Since I have always been very interested in astronomy and space explorations, I used to compare Maxon with NASA engineering. Testing, testing and testing before launch, redundance, stability and and rock solid reliability during flight. I used to, I said. IMO, it would have been better to wait until the next launch window, to use a space exploration metaphor. -Ingvar

Why they shut it down? I do not know. But I have several web applications running myself, and maintenance costs will add to the total budget. Since they have a new license system now, I guess they wanted to do some housekeeping. C4D versions came in my mailbox, up to, and including R17. After that, they had to be downloaded. If you are a registered customer, I see no reason why you cannot get your SN and setup files. I got links in my support response, from Maxon, links to everything, setups and SNs for my R18, R19 and R20. Here in Norway, C4D was sold through a local dealer. I assume that is the case for you too, isn't it? Contact the dealer, the least they could do, is to help you out here, if Maxon is slow. -Ingvar

The deadline for support will never expire, one must hope. Just the e-portfolio. Why not send a new support request? I got a response, almost immediately, it was some days ago. The kind of support I got, is not dependent on the e-portfolio being accessible. -Ingvar

I did not mean that, either. My thought, is that if you find my ideas, my solutions interesting, you might want to incorporate them into C4D. There should be no problem extracting the executing code, the descriptions and so on, then format and adjust it to the Maxon in-house standards. That was my thought. -Ingvar

Hi Dave, I can send you a short PM. What channel do you prefer? E-mail? -Ingvar

Good idea! I might do. Changing the GUI like they did now, has other implications. There is an enormous amount of C4D tutorials out there, they were all useful until now. Even 8 years old tutors. I myself have made several Camtasia recordings, and have downloaded a whole lot of excellent tutors from YouTube. Not to forget the excellent instructions that 3D Kiwi made, IMO some of the best there is. As is was, it did not matter much in what C4D version these were made, because of the GUI familiarity. As you saw in my previous post, I have ten - 10 - versions of C4D. Due to some plugins only working in certain versions, I might fire up even 5-6 years old C4D and do useful work. It doesn't matter, since the GUI practically is the same. As it is now, I get a headache just by the thought of wringing my brains to simultan-translate between the old and the new GUI. What adds to the pain, is that I have no idea why this change was made. Had it at least been justified with an acceptable explanation. Haven't seen any. -Ingvar

Hi Srek, Would plug-ins be of interest to you? I have been a professional programmer for 25 years, all kinds of languages. 3D is my (expensive) hobby. I have C4D R13, R14, R15, R16, R17, R18, R19, R20, R21 and R23, all Studio versions, so I have some knowledge about the product. I have written several plugins, mainly for animation. All in C++. I couldn't make C4D do what I wanted, so I wrote my own extensions. Never published, I use them in-house, for myself. The code I have written could probably be easily integrated into C4D, as extra functionality. The question is: Is this interesting to Maxon at all? As for the rest of the discussion here in this super-long thread, I have my thoughts, of course. But I will mention just one of them: I had my credit card ready, because I got a quotation from Maxon for perpetual R25, I was about to purchase. Then I saw on YouTube that the super beautiful, super functional, super familiar, super ingenious, super productive User Interface was changed. Especially the harmonic colors were gone, and the familiar mussel-memory-baked symbols had been over-simplified.. The GUI - exactly what struck me as out-of-the-world ingenious the first time I fired up Cinema 4D, in May, in2012. I have been developing GUIs for 25 years.. so I have my opinions about this. I didn't purchase t his version. I need to think about it. Sigh.. -Ingvar

No surprise. You see, Microsoft just changed the icons and realigned the taskbar, plus a couple of other GUI changes. And now presents it as an upgraded OS. Wonder where they picked up this trick.. -Ingvar

Ok folks, I got a good response from Maxon, they sent me a special link to download the setup for R18. Since I have R13, R14, R15, R16, R17, R18, R19, R20, R21 and R23, all Studio versions, I spent a couple of hours installing any update available for the older versions. There was a few gigabytes to download, but now all is set. And Maxon told me, that when I upgrade my hardware, I can just copy the entire C4D installation from Program Files, over to the new PC. And it will work. Again, I am happy that I visited the Café yesterday, and saw this. It is always good to get things tucked away inside the house, in a secure place, now that King Winter is knocking on the door here in Norway. I have spent a fortune on Cinema 4D over the last 10 years, and I will not just let these older jewels dry out. -Ingvar

Me too. I have created a support ticket, hopefully Maxon will respond. I also asked them to what extent the extras, upgrades, content libraries and so on, will be available for download, later. Let us say I install an older version of C4D, on a new PC. I then, of course, want to download anything extra, which used to be available, back in the day. It is irritating that the local dealer here in Norway for years milked Cinema 4D, and siphoned money off the MSA, without bothering doing anything at all for for the product. The least they could do, was to warn me about this. So thanks to the OP for this thread. I am glad I read it! -Ingvar

That's not long ago! R13, R14, R15, R16 and R17 R13 unboxed, two DVDs, color stickers (have no idea what they were supposed to be used for), installation guide, cloth to wipe your glasses (I assume) and last, but not the least, a user manual. The latter is very interesting to read, because I always discover a couple of things I either did not know, or have forgotten about, Nothing beats a booklet you can hold in your hand. -Ingvar

I am jumping ship, so to say. At least it feels like that, after 9 years of C4D, and 10 perpetual versions, Studio versions to boot. I have written several animation plug-ins in C++, for my own use so far. So I really got to know C4D. The good feeling, the excitement about this product, is not there anymore for me. It started with the last couple of versions, and was amplified by the various "What's new in R25" videos on YouTube. And the discussions here in the Café. I will stay tuned, and follow the progress. Perhaps I will be back as a customer, but probably not. No doubt, it is the most talked about release, indeed, watch the first five seconds 🤒 -Ingvar

And the icons? -Ingvar

I love the color scheme C4D has used since dawn. Now it is gone. Watch the recent review on Greyscalegorilla. I am not alone with this view. But I give you right, it is allegedly possible to use the old layout, at least to some extent. But as far as I have understood, there is some animation involved, or am I wrong? Hot corners etc. I do not like animated interfaces at all. And I shudder with the thought of a context sensitive GUI, if that means that the GUI changes just because I select or deselect something. -Ingvar

Very well said, all of it in your post. IMO one of the best posts in this thread/topic. Just one thing, C4D was different just one version ago. It still had its "Maxonified" user interface. Super logical way of doing things, and all those nice colors and icons. I was tempted to pay for R25, just to support Maxon and hope that the next version would break the tech preview chain. But merely the thought of having to relearn the GUI, that put me off. It is not done in a week. Not even in a month. And relearning the GUI would also mean trouble using the previous versions. I have R13 to R23 Studio versions, and still use some of the older, because they have plugins I need. Switching back and forth between two C4D GUIs, I get a headache just by the thought.. -Ingvar

My wording could have been better. Here is what I mean about this: I have been in the software business for 24 years now, and have noticed a few things. I like to call this “feature maturity”, or “functions saturation”. This applies to both hardware and software. I have an HP Photosmart ink printer, bought in 2000. It is still a reliable workhorse. Go figure.. a printer more than two years old in 1998 would have been replaced, immediately. My main computer is a powerful beast I built myself in 2010. I have Adobe CS6, the last one they released as perpetual, almost ten years I think. And to me it is so advanced, I will never discover all the things I can use it for. So to the point: I sincerely believe that it is not so much the hardware / software which is the limitation anymore, but more the artist her/himself. Some of us have come to the point when good is good enough. The stupefying availability of all kinds of multimedia software in 2021 will already allow you to create almost any imaginable and unimaginable artistry. Let's take Microsoft Office. What do you really miss in Office 2010, that will force you to subscribe to Office 365? Finally: Me thinks that the big software companies have problems with a steady income, because customers, due to the aforementioned conditions, may skip a version or three. The curve has been flattened. And the solution: Subscription. -Ingvar

We must learn that in the raw business world, there are no such things as "faithful customers", "arrogance", "honesty", "decency" - we just have business. Moving to the subscription model is a sign of a) Panic, sales are plummeting or b) The need to hide what I call feature maturity, the saturation of nifty features or c) A messed up roadmap which stems from trying to chew more than a mouthful at one time or d) Plain financial calculations that tell the company that this is the most profitable way to go In Maxon's case it is one one these factors, or most likely, a combination of them. -Ingvar

I have watched this conversation, on GreyscaleGorilla. If you don't want to see it all, at least watch the last 15 minutes. They both give R25 a rather lukewarm welcome, to say the least. Especially Chad Ashley has some very valid comments abut the new version. I am sure, even if it is not said directly, that he (and maybe Nick Campbell too) fears that the new features, when ready for production, will come too late, and too wrong. And that he (they) do not like the direction things are taking. In any case - this video convinced me that I should skip at least one C4D version. It is sad. -Ingvar

This has to be the worst design decision ever. While nice in some cases, it contradicts normal application GUI design (at least on Windows), and occupies space, unnecessary. You can always switch between projects via shortcut keys. (Assign a key to Next project). So there definitely is a need to turn this off. I don't have R25, and it is unlikely that I will purchase yet another C4D. I will stick to my ten C4D versions. But if I had, I am sure it would annoy the hell out of me. -Ingvar

The main frustration stems from us old-timers not wanting to rent software, and thereby throw money out of the window. Then, having a release with almost no real new features, except a GUI nobody asked for, there you have it. Give us a new features packed perpetual version with the same benefits that subscribers get - and yes, I (we) would certainly be willing to approach the new GUI with a friendlier attitude. -Ingvar

I didn't say it wasn't broken. I asked: Who felt that is was broken. A rather interesting question, isn't it? -Ingvar

If it ain't broken, don't fix it. It was fixed. Question is - who felt that it was broken? -Ingvar