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I don’t comment on a lot of discussions or frequent the forum much these days but I’ll throw in my 2 cents for what it’s worth. Now while I agree sending people an invoice maybe isn’t the best approach. The reality of the situation is the forum is growing, in terms of memeber numbers, features etc and with it comes increased costs. Google Ads are all but gone, so there’s no revenue coming from that to help support the core running costs, and honestly I don’t think it’s fair or realistic for Igor to brunt all the costs from his own pocket along with the small number of contributors to keep this all going. He’s clearly not keeping this going for profit making purposes…but to give people a place to come to, to ask questions, gather knowledge, share art, and literally have access to some of the most knowledgeable C4D users out there. When you look at the wealth of resources this community offers, Asking 10 euros a YEAR to help maintain it is a very small ask, 10 euros a month would easily be justifiable in my opinion. 10 euros is roughly £ 8.50 in the UK, I’ve just spent £10 today on lunch…we’d all love for this to stay free. I’d also love to walk down to the end of my garden and pull money off the tree instead of having to work for it, but we need to be realistic. Without turning this into a Maxon slagging match, the reality is, this is the biggest forum on the internet providing help, support, technical knowledge, hell essentially free advertising for Cinema 4D and the fact they pulled funding is a massive slap in the face. Even more so because I know that Igor has put this off for as long as possible, and is not a decision he would have taken lightly. The alternative being that we potentially lose the core, which would in my opinion be a massive loss to the C4D community as a whole. I’ve been a member for 8 years, since Nigel owned it, then Hrvoje now Igor. I’ve been a moderator before in the past and know first hand all the blood sweat and tears that have gone into keeping this place going updating it, adding new features and so on. It would be a damn shame for all that to be in vein if the core disappears. If Maxon won’t help then it’s down to the members to keep our community going. V

There is a new Illustrator import in R25:

Yes, sometimes postings get no attention, get lost in the dark, or just nobody knows an answer. Best practice: If you get to know the solution for your problem, post it. Answer yourself, but in the forum. Give and recieve knowledge. That's what a forumm, what a community is about!

Am I the only one that finds this comment in extremely poor taste? Disclaimer: Yes, I considered not posting this comment at all because what’s the point? You can say that it is only a joke, and I shouldn’t take it so seriously, which is probably true. Disclaimer: Yes, I’m sad that I wasted my time writing this comment. Disclaimer: Yes, I may not have all the facts as they are written below, so feel free to correct me. Situation #1: One person establishes a forum because he wants to create a community around a software that he enjoys working with, and he supports it for several years; however, after realizing that the software he created the forum for is going nowhere fast, he sells the forum and transitions to a new software. The new owners want to continue supporting the community, but they do need to make it financially worth their while because in the world as it is, time is money (another sad topic for another day, which is why I should have spent my time doing something more productive), and they are on the hook for the costs - they are not part of an umbrella corporation to help finance their endeavors. Since it isn’t currently financially viable, the owners thoroughly explain why a membership fee is necessary, discuss how they tried to make the fee as minimal as possible, and explain that they hope everyone will be okay with it. Situation #2: A successful software company isn’t satisfied with their high amount of revenue, so they bring in new management to further increase that revenue. The solution is to remove a subscription service (MSA) that users have no issue with, because it allows users to keep the previous version of the software if they don’t upgrade. The company then implements a subscription service that costs more than the previous subscription (MSA) and discontinues the ability to keep previous versions if you are on the new subscription service if you don’t pay. The company also removes benefits to perpetual licenses holders in an effort to force them into the subscription service. The company doesn’t provide a good explanation as to why this new service and cost are necessary (aside from the “it’s better for users because of updates” talking point). There is a small, but unsuccessful, backlash to this decision, mainly made up of freelancers and small creators. Their dissatisfaction is voiced on the forum discussed in Situation #1. Due to this backlash, the company’s representative thinks that such a comment is absolutely not in poor taste to make because the two situations are so similar, so if you have a problem with Maxon doing everything they can to force you into a subscription with less benefits than you had before just to increase revenue, then don’t be a hypocrite. You should have the same amount of backlash to this forum asking for 10 euros a year. Am I the only one that thinks this comment is completely out of touch? Whether you like subscriptions or not, these are not the same scenarios, and I feel like it is a slap in the face of Igor after he posted such a transparent and honest post, and the decision to charge a fee doesn’t seem like it was an easy one to make. I have a feeling Maxon’s decision was very easy to make. I just feel like it shows a total lack of respect for this forum and the support they try to provide users. EDIT: I didn't write this from an angry perspective, to try to start yet another subscription discussion, or to incite an anti-Maxon response. I'm just tired of society as it currently is. Igor and the team are trying to provide value to this very small corner of the world, I assume because they really enjoy it, and they are doing their best to support it. The negatively, joking or not, as they try to do their best to support their efforts is so disheartening.

must not comment...

Maybe Igor can just charge the regulars (ie us) who are hanging out, and let newcomers in for free? Call it the old timer bill.

😅 I get jokes

You are missing half the equation ! 🙂 This works in conjunction with 'ToDo' Tags which you can add to any object, using the r-click / tags / other menu. All tags you add appear in the master To Do Tab in the Project settings, at which point you can just edit them directly and mark them done or not. CBR

I'm fine paying directly to support the forum, but I am afraid so many others will not and the forum will fade off. People are so weird about money - they think they deserve to make money, keep all of it, and would never work for free - but somehow think software developers, forum hosts, etc should give them the things they make their money with for free. I know freelancers who make $150,000/year and would never consider paying $10 for a really useful plugin, and use pirated software whenever they can. They could easily pay, they just don't think others deserve to get paid as well. I'd say try to go with ads or whatever other combo of revenue streams you need before you do this fee plan - I think it is a fine and fair plan, but it doesn't take in to account how cheap people are. I'd rather be annoyed by ads and whatnot than have the forum fade off.

"Greeks are they who partake in Greek education" - Isocrates, 436–338 BC https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isocrates

Ah I think this is legit funny. Not understanding the bashing. Having an engagement of Maxon CEO is an awesome thing, so it should be encouraged and not dissuaded imo. Thanks to Dave I was able to purchase my R23 perpetual license so of course I'll be biased. While I disagree with strategies and whatnot, I truly respect the fact he puts himself out here. There's no obligation on him or any Maxon staff to this forum. This is not intended to derail the thread in any way. It's just as an example of interaction from Dave. I'm almost certain Dave put the question of subscriptions on this forum to a relatively positive response. I know I was positive about it at the time. It was only later when officially announced I done the math and thinking of tight times that I realized I was in error to support it. In saying that, everyone is entitled to their opinions and contradictions. Not to put words in anyone's mouth but just because Maxon has the subscription model does not equate to their employees having to support everything having a subscription model. So if Dave voiced an opinion against Core4d having a subscription model, maybe it's worth asking his opinion on alternatives a forum could take for generating additional income. You know, tap the knowledge of the forum users if they're willing to share. Not to say that's a conversation that would happen, just shooting the breeze here during lunch

Welcome to the core. We'll be needing to know specifically which version you are working in (pls complete profile) and ideally, to also have the .c4d file you are working from so we can see all your relevant settings and models without having to recreate them first ! CBR

HI Is there a way to get a cost reduction fee (lets say 50%) if you share some content in the download area? I've already shared some tools and recently some fixed files to help with the missing icons in the R25 and R26 versions. All my stuff is free and i never asked for contribution. I also like to help the community when i have the time. However i feel that this fee is a little high since its bi-anual. Also, this kind of value might scare away new users from joining this forum, leaving many of them in permanent doubt (since there are not many c4d dedicated foruns) and ultimately quitting the software. And without new users, this community will fall. Dont forget that many users are students from all around the world and some of them without many resources. For Maxon It could be nice if Maxon could cover some costs. Some of the best c4d users in the world are in this forum and i feel that we could need some help from them since many of us do a lot for the community, helping, sharing content, fixing and teaching new users. In a way we are helping the company (and the software) so we need some help in return. The same gos to other software developers. Cheers

I dunno why gentle ribbing is meant to be a problem. Igor even cracked a joke back at McGavran rather than whining. Also a more conciliatory tone would help keep McGavran here. This is another potential 5 Euro sub, and every dollar counts, so do you really want to scowl at potential subscribers? I thought this was a fiscal emergency, yet a few here are alarmingly cavalier about keeping such users around. If I was the CEO of a software company and I found a cool forum that talked pro and con about my product, I would hang around and weigh in. This is what McGavran is doing now. I hope this continues. If we were really encouraging perhaps we could also persuade Dave to start a personal blog. This could be a bit like the work of Scott (‘Dilbert’) Adams, with daily reflections on life, and insights into the CEO’s personal hobbies. Any other forum and I likely wouldn’t sub but Igor has displayed such personal dedication (like the time he offered to show newbies around Houdini) that I am happy to contribute.

I'm not certain about the benign part and this certainly doesn't seem like a thread that requires a comedian, especially as the joke relates to subscriptions, but, yes, I agree with your opinion about keeping the thread on track. I just found the comment, considering the gravity of Igor's post and who the comment was coming from, to be completely unnecessary. Even if it was meant as a joke, it was still in poor taste. Concerning the subscription and your comment about new users, I also agree. They probably won't join for a fee, especially if they can't see the value of what they are receiving. There are plenty of forums/communities behind pay walls that are successful. Let me preface what I'm about to say with "I'm not a social media expert,” so please correct me if I'm wrong. The problem with creating a successful online presence isn’t money, but time. It is time-consuming. You have to constantly be putting your brand in people’s faces, primarily via social media, in order to drive traffic to the site. Those posts or videos, since they are related to a visual medium like 3D, will require high quality imagery to entice viewers, which is time-consuming to create, but you have a lot of contributors who can provide such images, which can then convey a “Learn from us, look how good we are” message. Once users are at the site, you need to offer something of value to keep them there and pay for it. To create that value is also time-consuming. For this type of forum, it would probably be training videos and/or personal mentorships, as well as the ability to receive help whenever they need it. Sometimes, no matter how many Google searches you do, you can’t find the specific answer to your specific problem. I wonder if you should look at the site as something beyond a forum. More of an information hub. As an example, could you engage with current, talented members of the forum to create training videos that can only be seen here, similar to how some people structure their Patreon accounts? Those members would then get a paid incentive to continue creating videos, such as a percentage of membership fees (if they increase) or payment based on some other metric, while Core4D is responsible for driving the traffic to the site and hosting the content. They wouldn't need to be 4-hour tutorials that completely cover a topic. Some of the trainings on 21-Draw are only an hour. Creators are successful if the site is successful. Or, Core4D could host trainings made by creators and take a percentage, similar to Udemy or Gumroad, except Core4D has the additional benefits of a forum for support. Either way, when I was using Cinema 4D (I've since transitioned to Blender), I found a lot of areas where trainings either weren't available or didn't cover a topic as in-depth as I would have liked, especially in the rigging and animation areas, so, if you can find where gaps exist, maybe filling them will help increase the value of the site. EDIT: I guess another option would be to have, as someone mentioned, read-only capabilities to entice users, but monthly fees to access the premium tiers, again, like Patreon memberships typically have various levels. (I'm sure I'm not saying anything here that hasn't already been thought of.) EDIT 2: I'll shut up after this one. If you can demonstrate enough traffic, could you create a section for paid posts (this may already exist here - I have no idea). As an example, on Cartoon Brew, they will occasionally have paid, sponsored posts that discuss various topics, such as new software releases (ex: https://www.cartoonbrew.com/sponsored-by-reallusion/can-cartoon-animation-be-performed-by-live-humans-212014.html) As another example, (this would be hard to control), every time there is a new release for Cinema 4D, you advertise it for free via a forum post. Maybe they should be paying for that exposure. You could potentially do the same for Modo or other software. Again, maybe I have no idea what I'm talking about, but I think for the site to truly expand and increase revenue, it needs to be something beyond a forum. Unfortunately, as with anything else, it takes a lot of time, and when people have full-time jobs, time is harder to come by than money, at least in my experience.

I'm not sure why anyone needs to consider something that never happened.

Asset browser / Nodes tab / Asset construction / Object group Drop into OM, double click on icon to enter graph - have fun 🙂

You're not the only one. it was in poor taste. Especially if we consider that McGravan sent his employees to this forum to harass the users who dared called him "AdobeGuy" in a joking manner during the subscription transition. I guess jokes are ok for CEOs, not for mere mortals.

Thanks for proving my point.