Leaderboard

You are right, my feedback can be interpreted that way and that was not my intention, sorry. The fact alone that several of Maxon do contribute here should tell everyone that we really do care about the feedback given.

Is it so outlandish to think that the feedback here might really be only a small part of the whole and not a fully representative one? You put one frame around this, i see a different one. I do not question the feedback coming from here at all, what i question is the relative importance you seem to give to it. If you use quotes, please actually do quote. I did not say or imply that feedback from small numbers of users is irrelevant, on the contrary, there were many situations in the past where a single users feedback turned things into a very different direction than initially planned. Also i did not say that we only get very positive feedback from other sources like studios, it is very different feedback though, positive as well as negative. I also did not say that everyone likes it after a while, i wrote, and you can read my initial unedited statement again, that opinions always adjust after actually trying. To quote mself "That initial reaction always changes to something different, either a more realistic impression of the same basic feeling, or a reversal." You expect me and others to listen to you, so please do me the curtesy to also try to read and understand what i write.

We can look into that. Our analytics didn't show this feature was being used a whole lot, and honestly it seemed slow and troublesome - particularly with network drives. But we've heard the feedback on this. This should work exactly like that - it does here. Shift changes x10 and Alt x0.1 Some icons were omitted with the goal of making the menus clearer - to offer some 'placemarking'. We realize that's caused problems when some of these commands are used in palettes and we're working out a solution. Sometimes this isn't ideal - if you shut down and lose internet access (or hop on a plane). We do make it really easy to deactivate (remotely) via my.maxon.net Definitely something we'll be continuing to work on. Some of the Render Settings UI work for S24 was the first step. With R25 we added the conversion to RS lights, tweaked the light UI and embedded RS light types in menus. These efforts will continue. BTW if you don't know the preview for RS Node Materials is a little better than the Xpresso-based materials.

That's not being ignored. We've worked repeatedly to improve the timeline performance - there was a dramatic increase with R21. We worked to improve skin solver performance in R23. We improved the load times for large scenes in S24 SP1. Beyond that, much of the performance is related to C4D's object system and priorities - which is fundamentally why we've been working on the new Scene Nodes core for years. It's not an easy task, and it's not done yet. But timeline/viewport performance is very much a focus of our efforts.

The main frustration stems from us old-timers not wanting to rent software, and thereby throw money out of the window. Then, having a release with almost no real new features, except a GUI nobody asked for, there you have it. Give us a new features packed perpetual version with the same benefits that subscribers get - and yes, I (we) would certainly be willing to approach the new GUI with a friendlier attitude. -Ingvar

I think that even if R25 would have been packed with the best features and overhauls of old features people still would be bewildered why a UI change like this was necessary. But with it being the main feature the new UI can be as good as it wants to be the perception that maxon doesn't listen to its customers that didn't complain about the UI but about many other things for years persists. some might get the impression, that the UI change was inflated to at least get one major feature into the release. the (maybe necessary) change of the user interface mechanics might have been better received if the old icons where used. Then people would get the chance to at least visually find their way into the new interface.

I fired it up just now. First impressions are not bad at all! I do wonder about that toolbar that is positioned on the right in the middle of the viewport and outliner. Not a fan of that, so I moved it back to its "proper place". Otherwise, I noticed the similarity to Blender, as others here did. I adjusted the ridiculous size of C4D's manipulators, and presto - side by side on my dual screen: BROS FOR LIFE! Sister apps? Spot the differences! Honestly, after a minute or so my brain actually had trouble identifying which is which. So funny! Seriously though, I don't mind the GUI change. It's a tad too dark, though, here and there. And I do agree that a number of icons are too similar compared to 24. I mistook the cube icon at the very top in the center of the screen for the cube tool, only to discover that is where the work modes are moved to. 🙂 Kinetic memory at work, I guess. The default viewport lighting during modeling works (much) better in 25 - nice improvement. I do like that: way more contrast. I do, however, question whether there was an immediate need to redesign C4D's GUI. Change for the sake of change? Not sure. Since I am not paying for this update myself (my employer does), I have little otherwise to say about it, but I can empathize with those here who feel this release falls a bit flat on its face in terms of value for money. It looks pretty good. But then, I am biased towards B 😉

FLima, I appreciate the long, thoughtful breakdown of suggestions for what you think I should be writing on this forum, I do, but on reflection I'll write what I want to write, not what you want me to write. All that said these accusations of toxicity, anger, shaking fists and becoming red faced are strange to read about as I honestly view this as just a fun robust discussion - seriously! - with everyone making various points, and I've conceded in places where folks make a good case for their POV, including the guy above who had clear and specific reasons why subs didn't work for him. So I said, yeah, that seems fair, I can see why you might not be happy about that circumstance. Then there's the shock and dismay of me returning 'again and again' to the topic of C4D, R25 and subs in a thread that now runs over 30 pages. My god, the sheer effrontery of some guy returning to the subject and making more than one post. Someone call the cops, a forum crime is in progress and arrests must be made. If I make points you feel are inaccurate, you're welcome to advise where I'm wrong or off-base or misguided. This is normally how things work in a conversation in a thread on the internet. But rather than doing that in your fat paragraph you adopt the surfer dude Keanu Reeves persona of whoa dude, chill out, give us a break, you're coming on too strong, all this positivity is way out of line, I simply cannot handle this enthusiasm, please give us a rest from this opposing viewpoint. I'm assuming if I'd said something that you had an argument against, you would have made an argument against it. Instead, it's oh no - here's this guy with his fifth or sixth post expressing enthusiasm for Maxon and R25, and asking for questions and clarifications on why people feel the way that they do. As usual in these release threads five guys post multiple long rants about how Maxon, Dave McGavran, C4D and subs are all collectively a crime requiring Interpol to interview witnesses and gather evidence for a court case with Ton Roosendaal as the crisply spoken prosecuting attorney, but someone expresses an opposing viewpoint hinting that those same five guys are a little bit OTT, and jaws drop, looks are exchanged, someone places Chic's Le Freak (Freak Out) on the turntable, and it's whoa dude, my god, this is too much, can this man be stopped etc etc. The hypocrisy is so comical it does make me laugh. Feel free to compare my positive posts with those from folks saying C4D has been murdered, Maxon must donate to the Blender team for crimes against copyright, subs are a sign of an Orwellian 1984-style future where all of us will live in fear on the streets like those poor bastards in HALF LIFE 2. Evidently by the accounts of people with a level head who have used it, R25 is a fun and nifty release with a thoughtful new UI redo that will take some weeks to settle into and will clear the way for a cool and robust S26. Re 'you must have had a bad experience with a Blender user' - gee, do you think? Cutman at CGTalk has managed to personally crap all over what was once a robust forum though half a decade of toxic posts. He's the highest profile rep yet in C4D forums of what a great and friendly user base Blender has and his record will likely stand for a while. Although Hvanderwegen (cool user name) makes a fine post above and I like his enthusiasm for Blender V3. Re Mazurbr - "When exactly did I insult you?" Mazurbr, you've never insulted me. Instead, you've made multiple posts calling Dave McGavran 'Adobe guy' despite the fact that Dave is here in this thread and is closing in on 100 posts on this forum. Imagine everyone sitting around at a table over drinks, and you point at him and call him 'Adobe guy' to the rest of the room, hardly the definition of politeness. In this light the guy above writing 'whoa dude, please stop it with all these posts expressing positivity, I can't stand this anger and toxicity' seems even more dumb and misguided.

Interesting GSG chat on what they think are pros and cons of the new UI. A funny discussion of a tablet issue at 22:40.

I'm sure you can understand why marketing isn't going to emblazon that on the website, nor should they because the performance issues don't affect all users. When advanced users bring it up - here or elsewhere or in technical support we're happy to talk it out and explain that we're working on it. There was a blog at one point where we talked about the new core efforts, but I think it unfortunately dropped off with the last website redesign. I get the desire to have these things in a more central, website location, but that's also a bit counter to the whole idea of an ongoing conversation with the community about this stuff.

Man, it is amazing how much you dance around a situation, downplaying and diminishing at every turn any possible negative feedback people can have. It will never be a "oh, yeah, there is this negative feedback here, and this amount of dislikes.. maybe we should understand why this is happening" No, it is always: "People complaining are biased and small numbers - irrelevant to us" "People always complain, but they like it afterwards (aka, the typical, we know what is best for you, better than you do)" "We listen to very positive feedback from studios ( a subtle way to point once again, that normal customers/hobbysts are irrelevant to Maxon) thus, everything is fine to whom really matters" Is it really, absolutely impossible for you to just.. for a few seconds, acknowledge and understand why this update was disappointing for a lot of people? Or you will constantly parade against customers who are unhappy with certain aspects, trying as best as you can to belittle our feedbacks?

You are right, that the perseption changes over time, and that statements on Youtube tend to be over the top. I looked for equivalent videos for R21 and before and just could find this one from R19. The statements there tend to be quite a bit friendlier though.

That might have been your perception, but UI and UX paradigms of Cinema 4D did not maintain integrity over the many years of additions and changes. This is less obvious for long term users since they only see a small change at a time and adjust to the quirks that develop.

I was following this live, but honestly, these knee jerk reactions tend to be over the top, in both directions. From my experience it takes a few weeks until people actualy had a chance to get their hands on the new version and functions and actually gave it a good try. I have read it a couple of times on this forum as well "This is (fantastic/rubbish) ... maybe i can try it in a few days". That initial reaction always changes to something different, either a more realistic impression of the same basic feeling, or a reversal. I get it, the first contact is often emotional, but the important part is to actually double check. Given the limited ressources we have, we try to not do things that we do not see as ultimately useful and better. Of course we make mistakes, thats why we have betatesters to tell us so early on (sometimes we even listen 😉 ), and then we watch the reactions of our users, sometimes hands on like here on this forum. We get a lot of direct feedback from studios and it is interesting to see how divergent from public feedback that can be. Pretty often the topics that come up are quite different from what comes up here.

I haven't tried every single one, but all the ones I use every day do (the ones in my layout) and I haven't found any others that don't yet... CBR

I agree - and indeed the icons I have in my regular layout look quite good on the right over there. For your reference, when you first drag them into the layout a small bug means all the icons in the panel you drag to will go to maximum size, which you'll need to reset by right clicking the palette and choosing 'medium' size... CBR

I think it probably will, even if it's just an icon overhaul, but will check with Holger if I get a chance. As it is his existing scripts should work with R25, though of course old icons will persist. CBR

Well, I would argue that it's literally nothing like that, but whatever. In my mind it's just routine customer maintenance and good business to try to take care of new and departing customers without having to make a killing on every single customer interaction. If nothing else it seems clear to me that Maxon's reputation for customer service and customer loyalty has completely tanked in the last few years, at least in the admittedly fishbowl communities we see online, fair or not, and there must be some reason for that.

Yes, but did they get new icons?

I think that it is acceptable to charge a small fee. But fist i find the fee to high, second it is just a another treat for the perpetuals. an third: I unfortunately do not believe that this argument is valid. You could senior mangement make do this job, then you can charge even more. 🙂 And The person that sells the license might as well have supported the company for 20 years. But in return doesn't get supported by the company when he wants to maybe sell one of his licenses.