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Well the new UI was primarily created by the same hard-working and talented UX designer behind the old UI. It was over a decade old, and needed to be updated not just for appearance sake but also for some technical reasons. And I imagine y’all can respect that while our UX designers have lots of great skills, they’re not C++ modeling developers.

Personally I think it is the person who complains about the complainers complaining about the complainers complaining about the complainers. 😁 Ouch! Look, CG is not a simple thing to get into. It takes time, money, practice, patience, more money, more practice, etc. It also is NOT a skill that is 100% transferrable from one program to another. True, the techniques are transferrable but the execution is 100% dependent on the software and it is learning how to execute with that software where most of the time, money and practice goes. Once you get to a point of proficiency with the software where you are so immersed into the workflow that the interface melts away, then you have "arrived"! It just doesn't get any better than that. You just don't want to give that up like an old pair of shoes simply because it takes so much effort to get to that point. It is not that easy...especially for the hobbyist who has less time to learn simply because they have a different day job. So, with that said, I think it is valid for people to ask simple questions like "why did you change the interface when no one asked you to?" or "why was the interface a higher priority than this new modeling feature that would really improve my proficiency and help my workflow". They may sound like they are complaining, and some may actually be complaining, but from the majority I hear frustration and loss....especially with comments from hobbyists with perpetual licenses regarding how Maxon is making it increasingly difficult to financially continue with the software. Yeah... real sweat, blood and tears get invested into becoming proficient with each and every individual program. That is a cold hard fact for many of us. When that sacrifice gets threatened, then people speak up for themselves. That is natural. To some, the protection of that sacrifice is a complaint. Not me. I see what is behind it because I have made those same sacrifices. I really don't care if some on the forum cannot make that distinction....but I desperately hope that Maxon can. Dave

Ok, let's have a fun quiz! Question: Are there any other C4D features that could prefix this statement? LOL!

i agree, you don‘t have to really re-learn anything, functionality and logic is the same as before. the only thing that needs a bit of time is re-programming your muscle memory. but even this happens faster than you think, in a couple of weeks you‘ll find yourself moving your cursor to the wrong spot when working in older versions.

Some thoughts about the new UI: -- The layout changes aren't that drastic as many people seem to make them. The palettes moved a bit, but in a logical way, that reduces mouse travel. -- The new icons fulfill a lot of ojective criteria for icons: they are discernible, consistent, readable in any scale and 'speak' very well. C4D has by far the best Icons of all apps I know, the new ones continue this. -- Color: Personally, I like the color theme, but it would be great if we had 3 nice presets for light, semi-dark-grey and dark background, plus 2 or 3 color-themes for the icons. Or a color-temperature-slider 😉 -- Reorganization: The menu-clean-up was reaaally needed and well done; now the rest of the UI feels on par. For me, that was a successful overhaul. -- Timing: UI/UX is made by a special team, so the Redesign likely did not take a lot of ressources away from developing the functional parts of the app. Which, sorry to say, makes the R25 update look even more thin 😕 It seems, the UI refresh was planned as a 'stopgap' to stretch time until something is ready in the developer's department... Nevertheless, it was well done, that's my point 🙂

It's true Dave - it was a cheap shot and I apologize.

There is this dismissive tone I just dont get it. "It is just a software"? it is a software that is costing us A LOT of money, offering us little advancements and updates, ZERO listening to users feedback, completely ignoring all the REAL problems the software has, offering in exchange freaking gimmicks, improvements that nobody asked for... so what, we are supposed to be quiet, behave like good subsurvient users and be mindful of our "mental health"? This exact same tone can be seen on Redshift forums.. treating costumers like entitled babies. We are customers, we pay a lot for this, we are allowed to be pissed if all the things we request for the software we are PAYING for is being intentionally ignored. And so far, people here have been respectful towards each other (well, minus one kid...) but it doesnt mean we cant be honest about how we feel about the software we have invested thousands of dollars, and years of our lives. I've said it before and I will say it again. If this pathetic excuse of an update doesnt affect you, then, good for you. But dont diminish other people's complaints just because it doesnt personaly affect you (This works for a lot of other things in life too)

Dave - please, take a deep breath. It's going to be okay, dude. I don't want to speak for Rick, but I believe he is just saying because of the pandemic, it's been harder to meet face to face with end users at shows and events. Zoom and message boards aren't the same as personal interactions - especially when you're dealing with artists and designers. No deep conspiracies. It's just software. Every time a new release comes out you go bananas on here. I worry for your health. Of course, everyone is entitled to an option - I'm not trying to change your mind. I just respectfully ask you to take a breath and focus on what the software is designed to do - create.

So you had me convinced of your sincerity up until that last sentence. Exactly when did you stop trying to be dismissive? Look, in light of R25 not being the most well received release and hearing about organizational changes and problems with collaboration does point out valid reasons for concern. Per Anders did leave this year too as well...so there are connections that could be made and all of that is alarming to someone who has invested heavily in C4D and sincerely wishes to continue doing so in the future. But when I connect all those dots together, I think there are valid concerns over that future. And to be fair, I did ask if I was reading too much into it....but maybe you missed that part. But it appears by your own comments that you are not that happy with C4D but are content to not say anything about until you are called out. That is fine. We all have different thresholds. But don't criticize others for being "bonkers" or tin-foil hat conspirators when they have concerns but then lecture us about how you like to be constructive while at the same time raising the exact same concerns with C4D that the rest of us have. Nevertheless, you won't hear me calling you bonkers. To hopefully end this thread on a positive note: I would like applaud Rick for setting the score straight...and continuing to do it in a very respectful and polite manner. He is top shelf in my book and I sincerely appreciate his participation in this forum and his patience...especially with me. Just remember that it all comes from a common desire to keep C4D meaningful and relevant for every user as time goes on. Dave

Non-circular gears are weird...

Dear Maxon, as perpetual users get just one bug fixing update (or should I say maybe, as even that is just free will by maxon as stated in the new EULA) Why should we buy a software with a new layout that is not finished? as nearly all the other new features of R25 are not finished!

It's funny - just before Maxon cancelled the Prime edition, I stood on the precipice of purchasing it for hobby work. That didn't work out 😉 But yes, an indie version like the Houdini one would most definitely be a good thing for hobbyists, and also important to keep the millennials on-board for a fresh intake of younger new C4D 3D users. I also started a Houdini course a few days ago, and the Indie version is actually quite affordable for what is on offer. A non-commercial educational version will probably not be enough to attract new users or keep them from running to other alternatives: the 3DS Max forums experience(d) an exodus to Blender the past few years.

By organizational change I was referring to the acquisition of Redshift, Forger and Bang and the merger with Red Giant. We've brought a lot of new companies and people into the organization in the midst of a pandemic, and unfortunately because of safety and travel restrictions we've not had a chance for many of those people to meet in person and have the kind of philosophical conversations one often has over an adult beverage. There's been a ton of Teams calls, but I think 100 Teams calls can't replace an hour of seeing each other in person. And yes, some folks have chosen to move on throughout C4D's history (not just recently), though many are still active in the Maxon ecosystem. They had a great contribution to our products in the past and we wish them the best. But it's important to keep in mind that the senior devs that ushered C4D and other Maxon products to success are still very much a part of the company and day-to-day operations - some have moved to the C-level while others have been given Fellow positions. And for clarity - while I just said in this post the lack of in-person is an internal issue as well, the comment above was referring to conversations with users. Evan's absolutely right - I'm used to processing feedback both on the show floor and at the after party. In-person it's a lot easier to ask follow-up questions and narrow down what we need to do without the topic splintering into a whole bunch of other conversations - in person there's immediacy, and if the topic changes often that splinter group will move aside so two separate conversations don't have to happen on top of each other. And alcohol helps 😉 Cheers, Rick

there is no icons for some commands... like break phong shading command. it was on my layout in s24 and now i cant add it because this is not have any icon. just grey square. same on other some commands on my previous layout. so if i do same layout in r25 its shows me lot of blank squares....yeah cool layout at least... drop your work and try to find which gray square is what....

Overall...I agree with the end result - especially the new features that are not icon or location dependent such as hot corners, tabs, etc. I just think they could have done a few things to make the transition an easier one. For example, you can revert back to the originally layout but you cannot revert back to the original icons. People speak of muscle memory but that is easily solved with the old layouts and ONLY for those commands that are in that old layout. What I would have preferred is the ability to switch back to the old icons just to re-orient yourself to the layout first and then (when you are ready) re-orient yourself to the new icons. Even when muscle memory kicks in, if the icon is completely different you have to pause for a minute, hover over the icon a bit, see the name come up and then once you have confirmed this is the command you want, you proceed. That actually slows you down more than you may think. The fastest way (IMHO) to learn the new UI is to create your own layout. Redo everything and rebuild it how you want it to work. The pedantic action of finding and placing each icon where you want it both teaches you where it will be located and what it looks like. People are saying that it takes about a week of use to become familiar with it but I think re-building your custom layout will get you there much faster (hours not days). Dave

like you are responsible for reading this forum but complaining about the posts you just read? 🤔

The new UI is fine. Everyone complains about when a UI or branding etc changes. I don't think it needed changing personally but people will get used to it. Its the odd prioritisation of it over other things that is the issue.

Sorry, that's just bullshit. People have different reasons to stay, be it not having to learn something else, not being able to financally afford to cripple their workflow for months or just straight up attachement to the software. Pretty much the only thing people complain about is not getting cool new stuff, that doesn't mean older versions are insufficiant for their workflows. It just means people are pissed that they're pushed into a subscription and not getting anything in return.

Very sad Is there a way to export material packs out of asset browser like in the content browser a lib4d File?

I talk with users a lot, and it's the thing I love most about my job. I just had the opportunity to hang out with 100+ designers at Camp Mograph last weekend and it was awesome. I'm really bummed the in-person opportunities have been scarce the last two years (and will remain so for a bit longer it seems). Once they resume though, I encourage everyone to wander up and chat. I look just like the picture there on the left. I'll admit that with all the organizational change and COVID crap we've been dealing with the past couple years it's been a bit tricky for me to replace those in-person conversations. I find the forum structure a bit difficult and tend to focus on more chat-style interactions on slack and discord. But if you have feedback I encourage you to DM me here (which I think notifies me) or find me elsewhere on the interwebs. What I really love to discuss is your individual workflows. It's super helpful to talk about what problems you encounter and what would help you create new looks or more efficiently. To me that's way more profitable than talking about this-or-that feature from another app. I know those apps have those features, but what I want for C4D is to create new workflows.

I agree. I hate databases that rename and scramble the files so that the owner no longer has ownership of their own files.

Why? Because it locks people into C4D once they convert their assets. Other option is to have all files twice. Easy as that.

I'll just leave this here...

Sooo....let me see if I got this right. What is new in R25 (top items): New interface (not sure if that is a plus as sometimes a new interfaces have a learning curve_) Spline import Capsules. ???? Am I missing something? This is where my prediction that subscriptions invite lack of updates due to a captured financial base come true. Judging that their launch show today immediately glossed over C4D's new features with a pretty cool presentation on a Red Giant plugin (Bang) may reinforce my fear that this release is in fact very lean. Today is a good day for....Blender. Dave

Well, I guess the question was "Can anybody please fix my code?"... There are three main issues with the code posted above: #1: In mandel() function the last return has to be outside/after the for-loop. #2: The coordinates you set on the result object are complete bulls... (sorry). #3: Is a fundamental issue. The Mandelbulb is inherently a volume. Pretty sure, one could map it to the hull of a poly object, but that's not the approach shown in the video. So I won't even try this, but instead came up with the following two scripts. The first (test_mandelbrot) maps a 2D mandelbrot onto a plane. Therefore one needs to have a polygonal (aka made editable) plane selected: test_mandelbrot.py The second creates a Mandelbulb volume: test_mandelbulb.py Cheers